Islamization of Pakistan

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62 Comments

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62 responses to “Islamization of Pakistan

  1. Tilsim

    Fantastic. 2011 looks like an improvised coffin – supersonic jet to ‘heaven’.

  2. Natasha

    Nonsense.

  3. YLH

    Natasha bibi…you’ve written nothing but nonsense.

  4. Natasha

    So do I have a right to express my views ‘on the post’ without you poking in your nose and acting nasty , YLH mian?

  5. YLH

    Acting nasty? All I said was that you wrote only nonsense.

    Can you tell me what else you wrote besides nonsense in your comment?

    Is nonsense your opinion?

  6. Natasha

    What are you upto , kid? If you want to get into a fight with me here, I am not interested. I would definitely not want you to use your filthy-mouth for me.

    So carry on with your ‘nonsense’.

  7. YLH

    if your opinion of the cartoon is nonsense just say so. If you can write nothing but nonsense you should have the courage to say so and accept the consequences of your statement.

  8. Dastagir

    Its a thought-provoking cartoon. It felt kinda funny for 20 secs or so… but it triggered a thought process and ‘fun’ turned into melancholy. How easily have we been taken for a ride ! Gandhi ji introduced ‘religion’ into Indian Politics and is rightly referred to as a ‘Hindu Reformer’. Freedom of India would have come much earlier (and it came for all practical purposes with the GOI Act 1935)., but it took 12 years of hard work., to ensure that India was partitioned. Gandhi ji thru his mastery of Chanakya-Neeti ensured that Throne of Delhi fell in Hindu hands. (Of course, the final decision to partition India was taken by one man : Vallabhai Patel – the rest followed him silently – except Maulana Abulkalam Azad, who wasnt reconciled until the end – he saw the trap).

    Muslim Women : 50% of our population. Infact 50% of our being. What Islam teaches… but what we practice in real life ! What is Purdah. Who designed the “Burka”… how two extreme positions on either side… have shown us… very negative results. Where we had the women in “COFFIN”, there is nil progress. Where we have the women liberated (as in Turkey, Lebanon, etc)… even there… we dont see substantial progress. By progress i mean solid progress with volume. Applying make-up is not a sign of “liberation”. Where is the liberation of the Mind.. the thoughts.. Is the woman on a Nude Beach, liberated.. mentally.. ideologically.. intellectually.. financially.. socially.. sociologically.. and philosophically ???

    What is the right mix.. I always believe that FUNDAMENTALISM is worst than AIDS for a nation / civilisation. Whether it is RSS., the world’s largest terrorist organisation with its “institutionalised riot systems”., or the Taliban., they destroy everything beautiful in a society., stiffle freedoms., and turn their countries/societies into police states. They destroy a culture… and a country… all in the name of “ideology”. These peeping toms., these moral police-men.. these criminals of humanity.. these perverts and pests…

    How did muslim intellect fall into this trap ? Individually we have liberated / successful women in the family(ies)., but thats a micro-battle won. We have to change the PERCEPTION. We have to stand up and say that Burka is a COFFIN… and the girls need not have 5 metres more on their body.. and off with the dupatta too… someone could pull it from behind.. and tighten the noose resulting in death ! I think Purdah (in islamic world-view) means : To dress decently. And what is the definition of dressing decently.. it must not be provocative.. and it must not show skin (substantially). In other words., dont dress like Rakhi Sawant. That is the gist… but what have muslims made of it.

    50% of Islamic society is “women”., and this 50% is encased/enslaved in the COFFIN. It is time to educate daughters / sisters… and liberate them from their COFFINS… Dont bury them before they die. SECULAR EDUCATION is the mantra. A healthy male-female world-view holds the key..

  9. @Natasha, YLH is learning how to handle criticism from others: he still has a long way to go🙂

    The cartoon itself is cool and accurately reflects the state of women affairs in mumlakat-e-khudad-e-Pakistan

    Just my 2 cents!

  10. Bin Ismail

    Somehow, I have always felt that the burqa/niqab/hijab debate has served as an effective decoy, meant to distract our attention from the real threat – mixing of politics and religion. Even if women in Pakistan, religiously shift to the bikini, but State and Church continue unsegregated, then I’m afraid, not just the woman, the entire nation will be looking forward to a coffin.

  11. YLH

    Sheepoo mian,

    Are you familiar with the J-man incident where he was in a court before a judge and the judge kept saying “nonsense” till J-man told him “Nothing but nonsense has passed from your mouth”.

    If natasha only says “nonsense” and I point it out …how am I being intolerant of “criticism”.

    May I suggest you need to acquaint yourself with the English language before you claim what you are.

  12. ramesh

    even the arabs who are the originator do not subscribe to this as we do in the sub continent,why cant we have thinking of our own about our modesty,why the blind emulate.

  13. NSA

    Why does the burden of Islamization fall on women mainly?

    Is this “religion in politics”, etc. really a distraction from a more fundamental male attempt to control women?

    If not, what would the equivalent cartoon starring a man look like?

  14. Octavian

    Come now Mr. Khan, how is this a defamation of Islamic values?

    I have heard many a wise bearded ulema – well, actually only one, Javed Ghamdi – note that Islam does not require burqas / hijabs / niqabs / veils. The requirement is that both men and women dress modestly, as per the perceptions of their society. Hence, I guess wearing a sexy thong number in FATA would be out, but a nice Shalwar Kameez would, I hope, not.

    To claim that the veil is an undeniable and inherent requirement of Islam, and to label those who are not in favor of it un-Islamic is, I fear, quite jahil.

  15. Humane

    I agree with octavian.
    Wearing burqas or hijabs is not inherent in Islam. Islam only requires both male and female to dress decently and not caste shady eyes on anyone.

  16. Hayyer

    Dastagir:

    Why was your prologue, an entire para, one third of your post, about Gandhi and the history of partition.
    And why Rakhi Sawant, why not Pamela Anderson?
    Is it your contention that Pakistani women cover up as Indian women undress?-and is vice versa a remedy? Must Bollywood hotties put on more clothes before Pakistani women take some off?

  17. Hahahaha….Pakistani women are so lucky…..no more “hot summers” for them from 2011.

    Thanda thanda in that refrigerator.

  18. shiv

    A woman cartoonist might be able to depict a female viewpoint on this issue. But technically- even without sharia I believe that the “average Pakistani woman” outside the elite classes has fewer rights than the man. The defence that this is true for most of the world does not make it any better for the Pakistani woman.

    The onus of male honor and indeed family honor is put upon the woman. And she has to cover up so she can help save that honor. Given that Pakistan seems to work on a curious mixture of constitutional law and sharia in a country that is increasingly seeking to solve problems via Islam you have a situation in which a woman who is not entirely covered up can be accused of mischievously sexually arousing a male who cannot control himself. If an assault occurs the woman’s word counts for less than the man and she has to produce male witnesses to prove her case – which means she must pre-plan her own rape and take a few male witnesses along. Which is adultery. Catch 22.

    What that cartoon does is to take a swipe at Islam, or at least the Islam that Pakistanis have tried to implement over the decades. Islam has no law against stupidity and that loophole has been taken up with pride and enthusiasm in Pakistan. And god save anyone who accuses Islam of having any loophole.

    There are many women who prefer being covered up to being gawked at by men with hard-ons as the sight of a female neck. It is the men, the other 50% of Pakistani society, who fail to see that the less they get to see their women the more horny they get and then demand more covering up because every man is randy. The issue has less to do with women and more to do with men and their confused and guilty interpretation of lust, sex, desire and women.

    The Pakistan sex industry post from some years ago seems to remain right on top of the list. Is that based on the number of views it gets?

  19. pankaj

    Muslim women deserve more humane treatment and consideration.
    The Islamic religious leaders should show more compassion towards muslim women
    If muslim women get A little more freedom and fresh air , it wont destroy Islam.

    In the hot summer ,a muslim man should try a burqa

  20. Junaid

    “… Another great but very unfortunate change gradually took place. This was in the position of women. Among the Arabs women did not observe purdah(i.e. not secluded from public life)1. They were not secluded and hidden away. They moved about in public, went to mosques and lectures, and even delivered lectures. But success made the Arabs imitate more and more the customs of the two old empires on either side of them — the Eastern Roman and the Persian. They had defeated the former and put and end to the latter, but they themselves succumbed to many an evil habit of these empires. It is said that it was due especially to the influence of Constantinople and Persia that the seclusion of women began among Arabs. Gradually the harem systems begins and men and women meet each other less and less socially. Unhappily this seclusion of women became a feature of Islamic society and India also learnt it from them when the Muslims came here.”

    Jawaharlal Nehru
    Glimpses of the World History
    Page 148, Last paragraph.

    [1]Emphasis has been added by me. The words in the bracket are not contained in the original text.

  21. @Junaid

    Fascinating quote; I haven’t read Glimpses of India and this was very interesting. However, it is difficult to figure out what he meant by this passage:it was due especially to the influence of Constantinople and Persia that the seclusion of women began among Arabs.

    It was not my impression at all that Byzantine civilisation favoured the sequestration of women. How odd!

  22. Raj (the other one)

    The problem arises when men legislate on women. Why not let women legislators decide on issues that concern them?

    As far as rapists are concerned, all rapists should be raped by Mike Tyson, and their private parts sold in China as mince meat!

  23. Junaid

    @Bathplug

    Segregation of the sexes existed in Rome at least where women could not vote and had separate places to sit in the coliseum where the gladiators fought.

    Women also had not rights of inheritance in ancient Rome either. Plus the harem culture of having hundreds of concubines was quite common. This culture of having women solely for sexual satisfaction purposes is what Nehru is referring to.

    The Roman society was not sexually repressive and pre-marital and extra-marital affairs were common in the Roman society. Even homosexuality was commonly practiced.

    I am not too sure about the Persian society.

    So while the Roman women were not required to cover up in public, there civil rights were not much better then the black slaves.

  24. Raj

    The problems comes with morality ( which is diff from ethics) .sexuality becomes dangerous and have to be controlled and women becomes symbol of social morality.free sex, give woman her sexuality , accept that morality has very limited role to play

  25. Junaid bhai brilliant quote.

    Very eye opening.

  26. Bin Ismail

    [August 7, 2010 at 6:20 pm]
    Corrigendum:

    “..Even if women in Pakistan, religiously shift to the bikini, but State and Church are allowed to continue unsegregated, I’m afraid, not just the woman, the entire nation will be looking forward to a coffin…”

  27. Bin Ismail

    NSA (August 7, 2010 at 8:06 pm)

    “…..Is this “religion in politics”, etc. really a distraction from a more fundamental male attempt to control women?…..”

    Given the abyss in which the level of education lies and the pinnacle at which ignorance prevails, male-chauvinism would anyway, be the order of the day. When we consider, however, the factor of “mixing of State and Religion”, we are dealing with the involvement of the politically ambitious clergy in the business of the state. We are dealing not only with dragging ignorance into statecraft, but also with sanctifying this ignorance. This, in my opinion, is the real scourge.

  28. Ummi

    Indian Pundit: Watching Ewwish smelly Indian Women in sleeveless makes me sick. Keep them in bin

    And to the moron who threw up here. Read here why more and more westernized women are embracing Islam.

    http://tinyurl.com/2e7pda3

    youtube.com/watch?v=wVgmJ5BXUuM

  29. Ummi

    youtube.com/watch?v=wVgmJ5BXUuM

  30. Ummi

    tinyurl.com/2e7pda3

  31. neel123

    @ Ummi,

    In the video, it is mentioned that the African Americans and the latino Americans make the highest number of minorities in American prisons.

    Can you explain how Islam and the convicted criminals come together in this video ….. ?

  32. Kiran Jan

    THE CARTOON…..The 2011 picture should show another version alongside the the boxed woman.

    – An exposed woman wearing tight and revealing clothing , with a cigarette in her hand on her way to a secret visit with her boyfriend speaking in a poor english accent…calling herself from the “high society. “-

    The actual true image of a muslim woman is neither the boxed women nor the exposed woman. The woman is actually modest in the way she dresses, speaks and carries herself. Her modesty shows through her actions and mannerism. She is a woman whos beauty lies within her sole. She is an educated woman who is a respected mother, daughter, sister and wife. She is a woman that is respected in society because she is a doctor, a teacher or a lawyer. These rights were given to her 1500 years ago with the birth of Islam before any other woman.

    However……it saddens me to say that the above cartoon is how we are preceived. And until every individual doesnt take actions to change that image…we only have ourselves to blame.

    MS NATASHA: …. respect your opinion but I must say your frustration should be with the mullahs that are closing down schools for girls and stripping them of their rights….your anger should be with the mullahs that condemn the exposed woman by day…yet enjoys her company at night.

    Your frustration should not be with Mr YHL…who is merely showing what people see today.

  33. Bin Ismail

    [August 8, 2010 at 7:28 pm]
    Corrigendum:

    “..Given the abyss in which education lies..”

    Sorry for the typos.

  34. Natasha

    Ms/mr/whatever Kiran Jan,

    Has YLH paid you or something?

    I am free to give my opinion on any issue. Just because it is different to yours doesnt mean you start blabbering whatever comes to your mind regarding my beliefs.

    Keep your lectures to yourself. I know what Im upto.

  35. Natasha

    low necks , sleeveless , backless blouses/shirts are what is ‘spreading’ in Pakistan.

    Not to forget the growing trend of exposing legs.

    Tank tops , tight jeans ….

    And what do these people see ? ‘Islamization’ of Pakistan – because they need something related to Islam to poke fun at.

    Sick.

    I am sure the person who posted this article (most probably the person responsible for creating ‘pollution’ on this forum) is surrounded by referigerators and ninjas around him and not ‘hot babes’.

    Frustrated wannabes.

  36. Natasha

    The number of women who are converting to Islam despite the projection of such ‘NONSENSE’ is a tight slap on the faces of these intell’A’ctuals.

  37. Natasha

    And for all those ‘akal ke andhay’ loudmouthed selfproclaimed experts,

    Youtube .com > search pakistani mujra , pakistani girls , sexy pakistani girls and all related terms…You’ll know what’s happening in Pakistan.

    and then write a piece on the ones who are ‘exploiting’ women in the name of God knows what.

    Those who FORCE women to wear burqas cannot be appreciated but IF it is WOMEN who CHOOSE to don a burqa themselves , DIGEST IT.

    Pyaar ki ganderian choopna is okay it seems.

  38. Bade Miya

    Natasha,
    If I may, I would like to say that from my experience, the only women who loudly propagate the virtues of burka are the ones who most of us think that they should cover up; they are so atrocious looking.

  39. Kiran Jan

    Ms Natasha…

    Clearly you either did not read my comment or failed to understand it.

    The comment was not against you.

    You said you are free to give your opinion… I have not disputed that. In fact if you actually read my comment I have said had said that “I respect your opinion.”

    You then said my opinion is different to yours. In my comment my opinion of a true image of a muslim woman is someone who is modest and respected….and you choose to disagree with that ??? However, i will say it again you are entitled to your opinion.

    I’m also entitled to my opinion- and in my opinion you should not use these blogs to fight or get aggressive with people. Read the comments carefully…then understand them before posting comments. And if you do post comment please be tasteful.

    Kind regards

    Mrs Kiran Jan

  40. shiv

    @Natasha
    The number of women who are converting to Islam despite the projection of such ‘NONSENSE’ is a tight slap on the faces of these intell’A’ctuals.

    This kind of claim reached a crescendo a few years ago – the claim that Islam is the fastest growing religion on earth. I am not going to bother disputing that claim – everyone has a right to proclaim what he or she believes to be true.

    But I must point out that I do not think there has been any other time in the last 1300 years since its inception that Islam has had so many people across the world speaking up against the religion, its Prophet and mocking anything that pertains to Islam. I could write more about why this has happened and who bears the responsibility for ensuring that people around the world who do not mock or laugh at any other religion are doing it to Islam. One would have been hard put to find blasphemous (to Islam) material just 10 years ago. But now one does not have to look far.

    It always makes sense to see that there are two sides to every story – but by all means go ahead and hold on to the views that are dear to you, as I will do to with my own views.

  41. YLH

    haan natasha behen… women want to cover up for themselves…. wow! what logic.

    The feeble women who wear a burqah by choice do so after being brainwashed by a hypocritical and bigoted society. They deserve our sympathy.

  42. @Natasha
    “low necks , sleeveless , backless blouses/shirts are what is ‘spreading’ in Pakistan.

    Not to forget the growing trend of exposing legs.

    Tank tops , tight jeans ….”

    Wow….go Pakistani girls go….each such dress is a slap in the face of extremists.🙂

    Well done Girls of Pakistan.

    By the way , dear natasha which one do u wear?

  43. Hey YLH…..just look at the babe in red on the right side……as Natasha says….“low necks , sleeveless , backless”……and also “exposing legs”……now she will go mad……..🙂🙂

    Wait there is more:

    Look at the third comment in that post.


    Monkey
    March 14, 2009 at 6:59 am

    LOL YLH!!

    Although, I ask you, which ordinary woman/girl in Pakistan wears what Natasha is wearing?”

    Hahahahahaha……..

  44. Natasha

    You need help Yasir , big time.

  45. Bin Ismail

    @ Kiran Jan (August 8, 2010 at 10:52 pm)

    “…..She is a woman whos beauty lies within her sole…..”

    Interesting – her “sole”. On a lighter note, if I may ask, have you in your attempt at defining the “Muslim Woman” as one whose beauty lies within her “sole”, relied more on the use of pun or the art of typographical errors, in which I somehow usually excel? Incidentally, the pun of “sole” reminds me of Shakespeare’s following lines:

    “..A trade, sir, that I hope I may use with a safe conscience, which is, indeed, sir, a mender of bad soles..” [Julius Caesar Act I Scene I]

    @ shiv (August 9, 2010 at 6:59 am)

    “…..I do not think there has been any other time in the last 1300 years since its inception that Islam has had so many people across the world speaking up against the religion, its Prophet and mocking anything that pertains to Islam…..”

    On the contrary, Islam faced its worst opposition at the time of its inception. Christianity faced its worst opposition during its inception, when its founder faced crucifixion. Judaism faced its worst opposition during the lifetime of Moses. Hinduism faced its fiercest opposition during the lifetime of Krishna.

    God says: “Woe unto My servants. No messenger came to them who they did not mock at.” [Quran 36:30].

    What we witness today, in my humble opinion, is not Muhammad’s Islam but the Mullah’s Islam inviting trouble, and for reasons entirely different from those that incited opposition during the lifetime of Muhammad.

  46. Bin Ismail

    @ (August 9, 2010 at 4:47 pm)
    Corrigendum:

    God says: “Woe unto My servants. No messenger came to them whom they did not mock.” [Quran 36:30].

  47. @Junaid

    Segregation of the sexes existed in Rome at least where women could not vote and had separate places to sit in the coliseum where the gladiators fought.

    And this led to the harem? or to the practise of purdah?

    Women also had not rights of inheritance in ancient Rome either.

    Or this?

    Plus the harem culture of having hundreds of concubines was quite common.

    There were certainly no harems in Rome; I was asking about cultural practices in Byzantium, because I am more than forty years away from my studies in that culture and history. I don’t remember reading anything like that. Do you have any sources?

    This culture of having women solely for sexual satisfaction purposes is what Nehru is referring to.

    Either you, or he, or both has an overdeveloped sense of humour. The boot was very often on the other foot.

    Look up Messalina, the wife of Claudius Caesar.

    The Roman society was not sexually repressive and pre-marital and extra-marital affairs were common in the Roman society. Even homosexuality was commonly practiced.

    An open attitude towards sexual matters, pre-marital and extra-marital affairs, all implying sequestration in harems and purdah?

    How did those affairs take place then?

    I don’t think that makes sense. There were no harems in either ancient Rome or in Constantinople (in your answers, btw, you keep switching between them, without apparently realising the huge cultural distance between them).

    What on earth are you referring to?

    And furthermore, women not being allowed to inherit has little to do with the cited passage.

    The passage cited was extremely interesting, but do you know anything that would throw light on what Nehru meant, or is this as good as it gets?

  48. Ammar

    The process of Islamization in Pakistan has been gradual and it has intensified over the years. Religion is now used as a tool of manipulation in politics, bossiness and public dealings. The society needs to ponder upon where did the basic morals go? Unless we attempt to de radicalize the society the chaos will continue

  49. does the cartoon of fridge have a push button to heaven, pls. gift one to Natasha Bibi.

  50. Tilsim

    “What we witness today, in my humble opinion, is not Muhammad’s Islam but the Mullah’s Islam inviting trouble”

    I think that distinction is not clear to the world because most people get their information from the media. So I think all Muslims are in more trouble than they were.

    Mullah Islam has heightened receptivity of non-muslims (and muslims) to arguments that attack the very idea of Islam. These arguments are mainly spearheaded by non-muslim zealots who would prefer it the whole thing just disappeared.

    I am afraid all Muslims are all in the proverbial bucket because of Wahabi/Salafi/Deobandi/mullah Islam -call it what you will.

  51. Tilsim

    sorry for the typos

  52. Kiran Jan

    @Bin Ismail.
    “…She is a woman whos beauty lies in her sole….”

    it should actually read … “She is a woman whos beauty lies in her soul.”

    but Im sure you must of gathered what I met from the rest of my description of the muslim woman… but thanks for picking up the error and clarifying it for anyone else. kind regards.

  53. shiv

    @ Bin Ismail
    On the contrary, Islam faced its worst opposition at the time of its inception.

    I have no doubt that the opposition then was very strong. the reason why Islam overcame that opposition and spread was that it had something that appealed to people enough for it to become popular.

    But what happened in the past can only serve as as pointer to what can happen in the future, and those pointers are read by religious fundamentalists of both the Islamic and non Islamic variety. The past victories of Islam are “lessons to be learned” by opponents of Islam – they are grievances and wrongs that need to be set right. And the opposition faced by Islam in the past are the grievances, the “chip on Islamic shoulders” that are still carried as memories of the great strife that early Muslims faced.

    If fact this is why political systems like democracy and communism managed to ravage all the religions and end up ruling more people than any religion could manage. Primieval human societies were tribal and religions like Christianity and Islam were great at creating “supertribes” that were not at war with each other. But those religion based supertribes were not good enough to rule even bigger populations because followers of religion spent too much time fighting over religion. That was superceded by democracy and communism.

    So Islam today is not just facing the challenges it faced in early days – but new ones that did not exist back then. A lack of recognition of that is only going to be a problem for fundamentalist supporters of Islam. It is no skin off anyone else’s nose. After all a person who does not recognise that he is up against new and powerful foes will get taken down sooner or later unless he adapts and changes himself.

    The choice lies within the grasp of people who follow and love Islam.

  54. Sher Zaman

    This is the fact; we have grown conservative with the passage of time. Of course, a woman should have all the liberty of choosing her favorite dress, but the conservative ideas that have grown in these past years are the real danger that we are facing.

  55. Dastagir

    Chaudhry Khaliquzzaman’s apt saying “Now we shall be fighting WITH each other comes to mind. All of our energies are wasted in discussing the length of the skirt and length of the sleeve.

    What have we become ? What the hell is going on ?

    Sudan is a country the size of India., with huge resources… and what is going on there ? Anarchy… civil war (of course that is ignited by vested interests… i accept that angle)… but overall its a dark pit. Look at the Sudanese and Look at the Indian. (The above is a small example… what i wanted to convey was… Physical SIZE doesnt matter). It is the quality of Intellectual Capital a nation produces… Look at France. The GDP of France alone is more than all 53 Muslim countries (Bastis) put together !

    No culture of innovation.. manufacturing.. Just rank consumers. Qafila Culture. Idhar ka maal udhar., udhar ka maal idhar.. Dubai Airport Mall Culture Zindabad. Import everything., open the cartons., display it in the window., and lo and behold.. this is the Economy of the Muslims. How fragile.. how horrible.. all of this is.

    Where will all of this lead to ? The Mullah with his narrow vision (Saudi Wahabi Worldview + The Jaahil Talibani Worldview) will eventually lead to TOTAL DESTRUCTION. Everything turns into a rubble… and then back to stone age.. living under a tree.. or under a tent.. a goat tied to the tree (for milk and meat)..

    How to build a modern nation… that is rooted in its ethics (nothing wrong with that.. i have great respect for religion.. from a spiritual angle.. but it should not be so tightening 24×7.. that it governs a person’s behavior.. even in the toilet.. sit down to urinate.. standing up is not good.. not to that level, please). How to build a sceintific temperament., and seek glory in this world (controlling one’s economy., or MUSLIM SWADESHI., which the Muslims have not done for the past 1400 yrs).. I mean.. the muslims have to be interested in THIS WORLD too (apart from the after-world). The Musafirkhana Theory (the world is a musafirkhana and the stay is for 3 days) must be countered by a LIVE-LOVING and WORLD-LOVING world-view.

    What is happening is this : The finest minds are leaving.. migrating (idhar doobey udhar nikley and viceversa).. the dust is not settling.. they are not taking the task of building a civilisation. How can there be unity among muslims., when brotherhood melts and walls of hatred start at every 3 kms. 2 muslims cannot sit together for more than 10 minutes… there is a sea of hatred for each other.. This is not the way of a positive Ummah.

    Over-obsession led to Over-kill. There is no need for so much religion in life. A broad world view.. a sense of right and wrong.. a sense of morality.. goodness.. (Be Good & Do Good) should suffice. 24×7 breathing down the neck., and trying to straight-jacket one size for everyone leads to stagnation of thought… and that turns the society into a grave-yard. You have to control it thru dictatorship (1 policeman for every citizen)… due to Petro-dollars, the Arabs have built such a society. There is peace (of the graveyard)., but its built on very weak foundations. There is no thriving.. full of life society.. displayed by Muslims TODAY. (They had their golden periods earlier… i accept and salute those). But., as they say., you are known by your last film (movie).. for the past 300 yrs., muslims have not done any scientific invention.. they have been left extremely far behind. Now they can overcome it.. and start afresh.. provided they take to scientific reasoning.. have religion.. but a broad over-view.. a sense of morality.. spirituality.. this world + afterworld vision.. and a sense of right and wrong… but not much beyond that.. English is the Latin of Today., and the Language of Science… so muslims worldwide must take to it (Dont give me the example of Germans, Japanese, Chinese, Koreans etc).. They are superior races… who have invested in intellectual capital IMMENSELY. We do not have that type of intellectual capital… and it cant be bought off the shelf.. it has to be created.. it takes centuries..

    This is how i feel. Education. Secular Education.. and throw away this debate about Burka (Coffin)., dupatta., etc. etc. Men and Women both are beautiful.. from the same species.. there is a man-woman equation.. and its one of God’s secrets.. so we must cultivate a healthy man-woman relationship format… and close all avenues for perverted thinking. A healthy mind will lead to a mind that does research.. goes for Sciences.

    I dont see LIFE anywhere in the 53 muslim countries (Bastis). They are all standing (as of today) on extremely fragile foundations… castles in the air.. or castles of sand.. No depth.. no foundation..

    Muslims must control their economies (Muslim Swadeshi).. lead hard lives (Live Laborious Days… as John Morley said).. and take to secular education.. and start the long walk. This may take a century or two… there is no quick-fix french fries solution.

    Muslims (world-wide) must get out of the French Fries Mindset (The Nahari-Kulcha Mindset must be buried for all time). Nation building takes TIME.. centuries.. hard work.. pain.. failures.. and after 2 centuries.. you have your own INTELLECTUAL CAPITAL.. which is a nation’s real wealth.

  56. Ammar

    The youth of the Pakistan can act as counter force against religious extremism as they are opposed to their ideology. The youth of Pakistan is enlightened and educated who understands that religious extremism poses a serious threat to security of our state. That is why the religious extremist despises the youth as it is not influenced by their propaganda.

  57. Tilsim

    Ammar

    “The youth of Pakistan is enlightened and educated who understands that religious extremism poses a serious threat to security of our state. ”

    What is the evidence that supports this assertion? Are there good surveys that support this view? My sense is that in general young people (other than in liberal circles) are as confused as the rest about the threat of extremism. Some of them are the cannon fodder for terrorists. My view is that we need to do much more to put facts and arguments before young people and address their concerns, as the extremists talk their language much much better.

  58. Tilsim

    @Amma

    “The society needs to ponder upon where did the basic morals go?”

    Indeed that is a huge question. I see that crisis of morality and ethics too. Religion, as it is taught and practiced, has utterly failed to instil these essential components of a just society. It is beyond the capability or outlook of the highly politicised religious establishment to tackle this issue.

    One step of many is for moderate forces need to come together on a platform (academic and political) and propose changes to the national curriculum that puts ethics and morality as a subject in it’s own right into the curriculum. So grave is the situation.

    This subject requires a lot more attention than it is getting at present. An overall strategy is missing. I am not sure how this can be tackled until there is much more awareness of the need to address this proactively. First we need to raise this awareness. Then discuss what may or may not be possible in the context of Pakistan.

  59. Dastagir

    Ab kya girengi bijliyaan !
    Jab Aashiyaan hee jall gaya !!

    Media – literature – movies – (SOFT POWER) is also a great thing. This resource has not been harnessed. This resource must be in the hands of people who know what it takes for Nation Building. In other words., they should be leaders of a reniassance. Literatuer / Social Sciences / Humanities are key… they produce IDEAS… and those ideas inspire a generation.

    We have failed to produce such men and women in substantial numbers., to change the ugly realities on the ground. This is a fact. For the sake of argument., if you count names., THEN., inspite of having produced… society failed… when it came to according them the respect they deserved…. and did not provide them with an environment for nation-building.

    Now this has become a “cauldron” debate… What came first.. the egg or the hen kinda argument.. which has no end. There has to be a beginning.

    Unfortunately only 2 options remain to be seen… all other options have been tried… and they have failed… One : A bloody revolution… and (2) an immense natural disaster leading to disintegration and further fragmentation… leading to a situation that “non-state” actors start controlling areas., the the Nation itself becomes a “no man’s land”.

    Both are violent, ugly, unpleasant and undesirable options… but nothing positive., nothing substantial comes to mind. Thru-out the muslim countries (53)., the situation is reaching dangerous levels… even in places that seem silent and dormant (on the surface). There is a dangerous under-current at the ocean-bed. It is for the elites., to get up., and provide leadership. If they act in a laid-back manner… or “i am safe., my son is in US and daughter in canda” mode… then this is doomed… the whole tent will fall down. Continued lethargy spanning decades., led to downfall of empires…

  60. What you want to say, if this thing happening in pakistan is this worng, i think you give a wrong picture of 70’s we are very better than this, and now we are facing a very pathetic situation, visit karachi and big cities of pakistan you can see half nude girls, ware evey thing but also nude, i think you want to promote this idea talbanization increase in pakistan