Pakistan’s Noblest Son

Dr. Abdus Salam – Pakistan’s finest scientist and the only Nobel Prize winner – passed away 14 years ago today. He was a patriot par excellence. It was in 1959 that Jawaharlal Nehru, who had an eye for talent and appreciation of Physics, tried to woo him to India.  Dr. Salam refused and offered his services to Pakistan’s president General Ayub Khan instead. The contributions of this great man to the promotion of science are too many to list.

Shame on those idiots, crooks, cranks and madmen who attack Salam because of his faith. Most of those idiots have never amounted to anything.

Dr. Salam Zindabad. Pakistan Paindabad.

82 Comments

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82 responses to “Pakistan’s Noblest Son

  1. Ahsan

    Apologies Mr. Adbus Salam for persistently refusing your mammoth contributions. Still you are just another scientist here not a proper hero. You know why because we don’t like your sect. It is blasphemous and religion is the only parameter here.

    We are a herd of crackpots. We don’t have the capacity to absorb your achievements.

  2. Talha

    Britain and Italy both offered him citizenship, they also said that they would nominate him for a UN seat for which he was overlooked in Pakistan.

    The Queen also wanted to give him a Knighthood but he was asked to accept British citizenship first.

    But he refused many such offers becuase he did not want his Noble Prize to be associated with any other nation.

    I don’t think we will have nother man like him in a nation that glorifies cowards and criminals.

    What a shameful thing that this man was shunned like this. All he wanted to do was promote education and bring the Islamic world back into the forefront of scientific knowledge and development.

  3. Here is a cracker for our Mullahs:
    After the Battle of Badr one of the conditions which the Prophet (PBUH) set for release of the idolaters of Mecca captured during battle was that they teach 10 Muslim children how to read/write [Reference ]

    So, it is OK for the followers of the Prophet (PBUH) to be taught by Mushriks but not OK for our Mullahs to allow a Muwahhid to become a beacon of education in Pakistan. Shame Shame!

    Just my 2 cents…

  4. Ahmedis should be allowed to freely practice their religion in Pakistan.They can build many universities and produce many more like Abdus Salam.

  5. A Abbas (November 22, 2010 at 8:39 pm)

    Not unless the state revokes its laws denying them the right to citizenship.

    Not unless the state judges all its citizens equally without considerations of religion.

    Not unless the official discrimination against the Ahmedis or any other person, overt or subtle, on the basis of religion is ended.

    Not unless all the laws in Pakistan, which derive their inspiration from religion or are based on religious ideas are voided.

    Not unless the state upholds the rights of its citizens by punishing those individuals or groups, which seek to deny those consitutional rights, for all of its citizens, on the basis of religion.

    Not unless the idea of religion is removed from the legal practice in Pakistan as the only qualification before the law judging the verdict of innocent or guilty.

    All the laws based on religion, in Pakistan, which deny equal opportunity and rights to its non-Muslim citizens, are nothing less than the Nuremberg laws passed by Adolf Hitler and his Nazi party in Germany in 1934.

    The only difference is that in Germany, facism was secular and in Pakistan, our laws support a religious facism.

    ciao

  6. Talha

    @ A Abbas

    You will hear the usual BS replies from people when you state something similar to what you have stated.

    Let me list them for you:

    1. Firstly, they will dupe the common pious Pakistani Muslim into becoming a Qadiani if they are allowed to preach. As Qadiani’s have been able to obtain Zionistic abilities to converse with people. They can take an innocent Pak Muslim and turn him into a Qadiani in a matter of minutes.

    2. This will allow for their population to increase and then they will overtake a fotress of Islam called ‘Pakistan’ and label all other Non-Qadiani’s as Non-Muslims.

    3. If they open their universities, they will teach the kuffar science, not the important science which consists of making IED’s, suicide jackets, bumbs and acid for womens face.

    4. The Qadiani in connection with the Zioneists and imperialistic forces will turn the pious Pakistani Muslim into a kafir, making our nation land of the kafirs. We used to call that English Parsi man Jinnah a Kafir too but Alham-do-Lillah we saved the country from his Kuffar ways with our Obejctives Resolution.

    5. Becuase such an kuffar thought has crossed your mind, you have been contaminated and thus a non-Muslim now. Please renew your commitment to Islam at the hands of a Taliban loving Mullah immediately.

    Astagfar.

  7. Hasnat Chochan

    @Talha
    lol and very well said. Perhaps Dr. Salam’s legacy will outlast the ideolgues and inept rulers of the Islamic Republic and he will eventually be honoured.
    There is only one thing that can defeat the ideologues: real and objective education for the masses.

  8. amar

    to hasnat

    Real and objective education for the pakistani masses will reveal to them how islam has made them (including yourself) into quislings of an alien totalitarian ideology in the name of a primitive, tribalist-arabic god-concept.

  9. @Talha
    Alhamdu illah I have already become a Kafir & Murtad. I have got rid of the hypocrisy called the Islamic Shahada “There is no god but full stop.

  10. YLH

    A. Abbas,

    Yaar you are based in UK. Do you want moderators and editors of PTH to be hounded for your statements?

  11. Sorry YLH
    delete tham please, no more blasphemy!!

  12. KR

    A Abbas: I will tell you that not 200 years ago, we have the historical documentation of following verse presented in a gathering of middle-aged men and was applauded.
    nazar pa.raa ik but e parivash, niraalii sajdhaj na’ii adaa kaa
    jo umr dekho tau das baras kii pe qihr o aafat .gazab .kudaa kaa

    No one objected to it, pointing to the fact that 10yr old girl was definitely not considered a child back then. The gathering included some reputable poets including Mir Taqii.
    Before we judge the acts of past, we must have re adjust our compasses and be a bit more objective.
    It doesn’t make sense to demonize people based on acts that fall outside of what we now consider ‘normal’.

  13. Precisely, KR here we are talking about the ‘universality’ of a theocracy and misogynist ideology which is packaged as the ‘final solution'(the only other final solution was by the 3rd Reich of Germany) for the whole humanity.

    Can we replicate these ‘pious’ acts(6yrs+52yrs) of the past to collect rewards for the hereafter?

  14. bciv

    pakistan’s ‘boldest’ son was aimal kansi. now he has a sister – afia siddiqui.

    those are the role models put up for the unfortunate youth of pakistan. they are the ones they might emulate, not the much wronged and missed nobel laureate dr abdus salaam.

  15. Hasnat Chochan

    @amar
    You will find a lot of Pakistanis on this site who are not very differnt from the left accross our eastern border. What do you hope to achieve by posting provocative and offensive comments? Are you possesed by hate of Paksitan and its people or perhaps Muslims? Even if there is not Pakistan in the future does not mean we will allow the utopian concept of Akhand Bharat or some such nion-sense to become a reality.

  16. Rafiq Mian

    Please spare us of Aafia Siddiqui in our face versus Salam. Check her history out first. Such people give us the name that we have !

    I am told, Salam was refused rights to go through Umra at a time – perhaps at the behest of our government. Please fill us in on it, anybody?

    In our country the (otherwise – known) kalma recitals are non Muslims, I mean Ahmadis. The Mullah is carrying out the verdict only deserved unto Almighty. By the way I am not an Ahmadi. So poor and weak of me, I am so afraid to make a sensible statement.

    Let us face it – the way we are – we are doomed – God save us.

    Unfortunately I can not give you hope – because God only saves those who save themselves !!!!!

  17. Rafiq Mian

    Let me honor him by writing this line:

    Professoer Salaam – You were our pride – I am so sorry we will not become your dream!!!!!

  18. Nasir

    Dr Salam was a shining light in pakistan.

  19. Talha

    Dr Salam, aptly put was the epitome of the heights Pakistan and Pakistani’s can achieve.

    He is our greatest son and a highly patriotic one at that.

  20. Abuse of merit and catcalling character assasination – – across the board – – have become the All Combined national sports of our illicitly-bred, nouveau-riche “Elite” (I refer to them as “Our LARD’ships!” due to hyper-accelerated Negative Sum Mentality (=’Your Loss Is My Gain’ syndrome). Consequently, eminence has been maligned systemically, and ridiculed wholesale. Lack of Talent and Corrupt Practices like Illiterate+Overpaid Mister Niazyy (discotheque supplier of UAE, Swindler of State funds, courtesy of Mohtrima Muzaffargarh) are preferred (kept out of harm’s way and save-vouched in prime sanctuary in the House of Wisdoom in Multan-Ji).
    Jang produced Dr Salam, Sir GangaRam+ … but laterday Jhang has also introduced and induced a lot of scamsters, phfisters-off-pollution and Spam-DNA In Decency.

    NB: Spam is a sandwich-spread made out of less popular parts of bacon and pig paraphernalia, I use it in that Sense+. We ‘except’ truth and accept Turf Control (neo-T.C.). Yet we expect miracles.
    PS: I am reliably told that ‘Here-Goes-Da-Judg’ and Sons Too’ have purchased a $500 Million-Plus hotel in Kazhakstan or Something like that.

    ((SOS someone?)) or Bowlow-G Tum Kiya-kiya khareedo Gay!

  21. Fellow-Pakistani

    It is very unfortunate, the way Pakistanis treat their talented fellow citizen Dr. Abdus Salam.
    Please don’t forget to ponder why Pakistanis have treated their telented fellow citizen, the way he is treated.
    We should NOT forget the bahvior of Qadiani Khalifa 2 Mirza mahmud Ahmad and his stooges, that has resulted in reciprocating behavior of Pakistanis, towards Dr. Abdus Salam.

  22. Junaid

    We should NOT forget the bahvior of Qadiani Khalifa 2 Mirza mahmud Ahmad and his stooges, that has resulted in reciprocating behavior of Pakistanis, towards Dr. Abdus Salam.

    hahahahahahah

  23. libertarian

    Damn! Nehru couldn’t close the deal. Gotta content meself with the rather less satisfying “he’s an international treasure” …

  24. Fellow-Pakistani

    @Junaid:
    Read following quotes of Qadiani Khalifa 2 and his stooges to get insight into qadianis behavior:

    QADIANI KHALIFA 2 QUOTES WITH REFERNCES AND PAGE NUMBERS.

    “It is our obligation that we do not consider non-ahmadis as muslims and do not pray behind them, because for us they have rejected one prophet (Mirza Ghulam) of God. This is a religious matter and no one has any right to do anything in it.”
    (Anwar-e-Khilafat, by Mirza Mahmood, Khalifa 2, p.90)

    “All muslims who are included in the initiation of Maseeh Mowood, even if they have not heard the name of Maseeh Mowood, they are Kafir and out of the fold of Islam. I admit that these are my beliefs.”
    (Aina-e-Sadaqat, by Mirza Mahmood, 2nd Khalifa, p.35)

    “Every one who accepts Moses but not Eisa or accepts Eisa but not Mohammad or accepts Mohammad but not Maseeh Mowood, he is not only Kafir but a hardened Kafir and is out of the fold of Islam.
    (Kalimat-alFasl by Mirza Basheer Ahmad s/o Mirza Ghulam p.110)

    Question: “Is it permitted to say May God Bless the departed soul, forgive him and send him to Paradise for a person who was not included in Ahmadiyyat?”
    Answer: “The KUFR of non-Ahmadis is proven by evident signs and it is not permitted to ask for forgiveness for non-believers (KUFFAR).”
    (Al-Fazl Qadian vol.8, No. 59, 7th Feb 1921)

    “Non-Ahmadis are the disbelievers therefore their funeral prayers should not be offered, but if an infant of non-ahmadi dies, why should we not pray his funaral prayer, he is not a disbeliever of Maseeh Mowood? I ask the inquirer, that if this is true than why don’t we offer funeral prayer of a Hindu or a Christian child? How many people offer their funeral prayer?” (Anwar-e-Khilafat, Mirza Mahmood, 2nd Khalifa, p.93)

    “It is the order of Hazrat Maseeh Mowood and firm order that no ahmadi should give his daughter to non-ahmadi. It is obligatory on every ahmadi to carry it out….. there is great loss in it, besides this marriage is not permitted.”
    (Barakat-e-Khilafat by Mirza Mehmood p.73)

    “Our prayers are separate from Non-ahmadis, it is forbidden to give our girls to them, we are stopped to offer their funeral prayers. Now what is left that we can participate with them? There are only two kinds of relations – religious and worldly. For religious relations, it is the gathering for prayers and for worldly relations, it is the marriage and both are forbidden for us.”
    (Mirza Basheer Ahmad, Kalimat alFasl p.169)

    “The point is now quite clear. If it is ‘Kufr’ (infedility) to deny the
    Gracious Prophet (Muhammad pbuh), it must also be ‘Kufr’ to deny the Promised Messiah, because the Promised Messiah is in no way a separate being from the Gracious Prophet; rather he is the same (Muhammad incarnate). If anyone is not deemed a Kafir for denying the Promised Messiah, then anyone else who denies the Gracious Prophet also cannot be considered a Kafir. How is it possible that denying him in his first birth as Prophet should be regarded as Kufr, but denying him in his (reincarnated) second birth as prophet should not be regarded as Kufr, when, as claimed by the Promised Messiah, his (Mirza’s birth as Muhammad incarnate) spiritual attainment is stronger, complete and severe.”
    (Kalimatul Fasl, pages 146-147, as cited in the Review of Religions, dated March-April 1915)

    “Any person who believes in Moses but does not believe in Christ, or believes in Christ but does not believe in Muhammad, or believes in Muhammad but does not believe in the Promised Messiah, is not only a Kafir, but a ‘pakka’ (confirmed) Kafir, and (he is) out of the fold of Islam.”
    (Kalimatul Fasl, page 110, by Mirza Bashir Ahmad, M.A.)

    “All such Muslims who did not swear allegiance to the promised Masih (Mirza Ghulam Ahmad of Qadian), even though they did not hear the name of the Promised Masih, are Kafir and debarred from the fold of Islam.”
    (Aiena-e-Sadaqat, page 35, by Mirza Mahmud Ahmad).

  25. O J DEEN

    Dr Abdus Salam’s work in Pakistan has been far reaching and influential.
    He has made extraordinary contributions to Pakistan’s nuclear, space and missile programs.

    Therefore, in 1998, the Government of Pakistan issued a commemorative stamp to honour the services of Abdus Salam as part of its “Scientists of Pakistan” series.
    Abdus Salam has been commemorated by Pakistan’s noted and prominent scientists, who were also his students. Many scientists have recalled their college experiences.
    Ghulam Murtaza, a professor of plasma physics at the Government College University, Lahore has said:
    ” When Dr. Salam was to deliver a lecture, the hall would be packed and although the subject was Particle Physics, his manner and eloquence was such as if he was talking about literature. When he finished his lectures, listeners would often burst into spontaneous applause and give him a standing ovation. People from all parts of the world would come to Imperial College and seeks Dr. Salam’s help. He would give a patient hearing to everyone including those who were talking nonsense. He treated everyone with respect and compassion and never belittled or offended anyone. Dr. Salam’s strength was that he could “sift jewels from the sand”
    Dr. Ishfaq Ahmad, former PAEC chairman and a life long friend of Salam who previously served as a former professor of nuclear physics at the Quaid-i-Azam University, recalls:
    “Dr. Abdus Salam was responsible for sending about 500 physicists, mathematicians and scientists from Pakistan, for PhD’s to the best institutions in UK and USA”
    In August of 1996, former chairmen of PAEC and lifelong friends, Munir Ahmad Khan and dr. Ishfaq Ahmad met with Salam in Oxford, United Kingdom. Munir Ahmad Khan (late), former PAEC chairman who headed the nuclear weapons and power program, said:
    “My last meeting with Abdus Salam was only three months ago. His disease had taken its toll and he was unable to talk. Yet he understood what was said. I told him about the celebration held in Pakistan on his seventieth birthday. He kept staring at me. He had risen above praise. As I rose to leave he pressed my hand to express his feelings as if he wanted to thank everyone who had said kind words about him.
    Dr. Abdus Salam had deep love for Pakistan in spite of the fact that he was treated unfairly and indifferently by his own country. It became more and more difficult for him to come to Pakistan and this hurt him deeply.
    Now he has returned home finally, to rest in peace for ever in the soil that he loved so much. May be in the years to come we will rise above our prejudice and own him and give him, after his death, what we could not when he was alive. We Pakistanis may choose to ignore Dr. Salam, but the world at large will always remember him .

    Abdus Salam (1926–1996)

    Born January 29, 1926
    Jhang, Punjab, British Raj

    Died November 21, 1996 (aged 70)
    Oxford, England, United Kingdom

    Citizenship Pakistani[1]

    Nationality Pakistani

    Fields Theoretical Physics

    Institutions Pakistan Atomic Energy Commission (PAEC)
    Space and Upper Atmosphere Research Commission (SUPARCO)
    Pakistan Institute of Nuclear Science and Technology (PINSTECH)
    Punjab University
    Imperial College, London
    Government College
    University of Cambridge
    International Centre for Theoretical Physics (ICTP)
    COMSATS
    TWAS
    Edward Bouchet Abdus Salam Institute

    Alma mater
    University of the Punjab
    Government College
    St John’s College, Cambridge

    Doctoral advisor
    Nicholas Kemmer
    Paul Matthews

    Doctoral students Michael Duff
    Walter Gilbert
    John Moffat
    Yuval Ne’eman
    John Polkinghorne
    Riazuddin
    Fayyazuddin
    Masud Ahmad
    Abdul Hameed Nayyar
    Ghulam Murtaza
    Munir Ahmad Rashid

    Other notable students Munir Ahmad Khan
    Faheem Hussain
    Pervez Hoodbhoy

    Known for Electroweak theory
    Pati-Salam model
    Pakistan’s atomic program
    Pakistan’s space program

    Notable awards Nobel Prize in Physics (1979)
    Smith’s Prize
    Adams Prize
    Nishan-e-Imtiaz (1979)
    Sitara-e-Pakistan (1959)

  26. O J DEEN

    Dr Abdus Salam winning his Nobel Prize in 1979 (ISLAM AHMADIYYA)
    http://www.youtube.com
    This video contains rare footage of an Ahmadi Muslim being awarded the nobel prize for his work in Physics in 1979. Dr. Abdus Salam is the first ever Muslim to have achieved this honour. His achievement was a fulfilment of the prophecy of the Promised Messiah (AS) that his followers will excel other

  27. Bin Ismail

    Among all the worthy participants of the various discussions at Pak Tea House, the two most illumined and enlightened sages, in my humble opinion, are “amar” and “Fellow-Pakistani”. While Salam had to arduously struggle for years before arriving at the solution called the “Grand Unification” theory, our two protagonists have, with relatively greater ease, succeeded in zeroing in on the “prime cause” of all predicaments that afflict the world and beyond.

    Whether the problem at hand is global warming or deforestation in Asia, whether it’s the price hike in Swaziland or the maintenance cost of monasteries in Ulan Bator, the “prime cause”, according to “amar” would invariably be the “absolutist-finalist-totalitarian-fascist-arab-ideology-followed-by-quislings”, while according to “Fellow-Pakistani”, it would be “Mirza Mahmud Ahmad”.

    The adroitness with which these two embodiments of wisdom manipulate a discussion and miraculously succeed in redirecting it from its original topic to anything-but-the-topic, is truly flabbergasting. For the time being, however, in honour of their Nobel-worthy perspicacity, we can overlook the fact that the two, have for some incomprehensible reason, not arrived at the same “prime cause”.

  28. amar

    to hasnat chohan

    I don’t hate islam or muslims – I fear them. It would be irrational not fear them. I have written this earlier also. Many born-muslims (the truly rational ones) also fear islam and muslims. That’s why the long queues in front of the western embassies in all islamic paradises on earth.

    to bin ismail

    Even if I write nothing the truth will come out.

    BTW Abdus Salam never arrived at any Grand Unification Theory (GUT). That one is still not on the horizon. Salam contributed to the so-called standard model along with many many other contributors. One proposal for the GUT was the SU(5) by Georgi, Glashow, Maiano, Papadopoulos etc. – but that has been disproved.
    One should also mention Jogesh Pati who worked together with Salam.

    The prime cause of many socio-political catastrophes in the world are absolutist finalist totalitarian and fascist ideologies of which islam is presently the most aggressive and extensive one. The speciality of islam is that it does its acts misusing the name of god (some arab god concept from the 7th century) which many other ideologies in this category do not.

    It’s good that you too are comprehending this slowly and steadily. You can try to ridicule me simultaneously – that makes no difference to me. If it pleases you to ridicule me then why should I object to your new-found happiness? It doesn’t hurt me. So go ahead.

  29. @O J Deen
    Are you related to the great Saeed Deen Pakistani Christian who hoisted Pakistan flag for the first time on the foreign soil in a Scout Jamboree in London 1947?

  30. Bin Ismail

    @amar (November 23, 2010 at 6:29 pm)

    The Pati-Salam Model was indeed in the direction of the Grand Unification Theory. His Nobel, of course, was in recognition of his contributions to the unification of the Electromagnetism and Weak interactions.

    I have no intention of ridiculing you or anybody – I assure you. However, even sans ridicule, I do find it ridiculous to attribute the transgressions of the clergy and extremists claiming to represent a certain religion to the religion itself.

  31. Bilal Ahmad

    Dr. Abdus Salam’s life gives everyone a lesson i.e. love and serve your homeland despite of every persecution on you and never run after fame. It is very disappointing that he was neither recognized in his life and nor was permitted to have epitaph of his choice on his tombstone.

  32. amar

    bin ismail writes:
    “…I do find it ridiculous to attribute the transgressions of the clergy and extremists claiming to represent a certain religion to the religion itself.”

    If a religion is from a god then this god has to take QUICK and URGENT responsibility for the errors/crimes of his followers, even (or especially) of his imperfect followers. Either he has to stop them IMMEDIATELY from doing any further nonsense or he has to admit that he approves of them. Even in case of human beings such high standards are enforced very often. And god must demonstrate the highest standards. Especially when non-followers of this religion are affected his counter-action should be quick and due compensation should be performed. A god must practise the highest exemplary standards. The islamic god proves to be an irresponsible entity here.

    I can understand that you wish to be a pious man. But don’t fool around and pretend innocence or naivete that I have to write these lines.

    Taking responsibilty and performing compensatory acts is the sign of noble-minded-ness – inventing excuses is not.

    If a religion or book contains ambiguities and contradictions and can be misused then it is not from a good-natured, intelligent or wise god.

  33. Shyanka

    Assalamu alaikum w.w!
    Is it not ironical that Pakistan’s Noblest son, Dr Abdus Salam, an Ahmadi is being lauded on one hand, by the Government of Pakistan and the same Government calls Ahamdis as ‘kafirs’?
    Thus by the mathematical equation,
    Pakistan’s Nobel son= Kafir?
    Shame on the Mullahs, shame on the backboneless officials of the government who look askance at the persecution meted out to the peace-loving Ahmadis whose only ‘guilt’ is the promotion of True Islam.
    May Allah’s Curse in the form of earthquakes and pestilences continue to descend upon the perpetrators of this persecution, and may Allah’s Blessed Sons be born forever from the Beloved Ahmadiyya Movement. Ameen ya Rabbil Alameen! AHAMADIYYA ZINDABAD…………YEH!!

  34. Bin Ismail

    @amar (November 23, 2010 at 8:17 pm)

    Your opening paragraph seems to be studded with “..god has to..” and “..god must..”. May I point out that neither does God have to nor must He act to suit the standards set by His own creation. Your logic, if I may reluctantly call it so, is truly a case of “oolti ganga”.

    “…..I can understand that you wish to be a pious man. But don’t fool around and pretend innocence or naivete that I have to write these lines…..”

    I assure you, not that it counts, that I have absolutely no claim over things such as piety and innocence. That I may well be naive, I cannot deny.

    “…..Taking responsibilty and performing compensatory acts is the sign of noble-minded-ness – inventing excuses is not…..”

    I could not, even if I wanted to, take responsibility for your tendency to mix up the doings of religious extremists with Religion itself.

    “…..If a religion or book contains ambiguities and contradictions and can be misused then it is not from a good-natured, intelligent or wise god…..”

    Considering that you would like to define or redefine terms such as “good-natured”, “intelligent” and “wise”, to suit your own self-set standards, it is difficult to imagine why God should be like you want Him to be.

  35. amar

    to bin ismail

    “…it is difficult to imagine why God should be like you want Him to be.”

    Not what I want him to be but what he should be doing to improve mankind’s situation and safety continuously. And these are objective standards.

    The gods set each other standards and not we creatures. And some gods are obviously better than other gods. It is a competition between religions, sects, ideologies, philosophies and gods and their messages and agents. It is all much older than me and hence I cannot be accused of seting any standards. These conflicts are 10 000 years old, at least. Even older than the year 610 AD.

    “…..Taking responsibilty and performing compensatory acts is the sign of noble-minded-ness – inventing excuses is not…..”

    This sentence is meant for your god (or god concept) and not about you.

    “Considering that you would like to define or redefine terms such as “good-natured”, “intelligent” and “wise”, to suit your own self-set standards,…”

    They are not my standards or definitions. They are far older than me and are a result of human sufferings and disappointments, trial and errors, occasional successes and satisfactions over a period of many millenia.

  36. libertarian

    @Bilal Ahmad: Dr. Abdus Salam’s life gives everyone a lesson i.e. love and serve your homeland despite of every persecution on you and never run after fame.

    Ha ha ha ha. Good One. My sides are splitting.

    @Bin Ismail, @amar: do you guys really need so much theological space? This post was about Abdus Salam. Can we keep poor Allah out of it?

  37. Kaalket

    Bin Ismael,
    There is an ancient Indian tradition of Neti Neti used in discarding what cannot be considred Godhood . This is to be used for folks who have the misunderstanding or immature attitude of looking for God in high heaven instead of turning Inward and finding Him right inside. The Arabian Godhood falls short on almost all the high standards as in this world itself we find many good human beings having higher moral, intellectual and spiritual standards. I mean no insult but this is one of the main reasons why Islam failed in India while it succeeded in civilizational Egypt and Persia lacking any philosophical deapth in spiritual sphere. God can be called Allah but this Allah of Arabia dont measure upto the standards of Godhood. What It claims and what It do and recommend to do show no integrity at all. Only vanity and doctrinal shallowness trying to squeeze Supreme Divinity in narrow, petty mindedness.

  38. amar

    to libertarian

    This allah is very very intrusive – especially in themes related to the land of the so-called pure. The god concept of arabs and islam is aggressive, invasive, power-hungry, imperialist and greed-based.
    And with ylh watching over us, Jinnah too makes his presence felt everywhere as the Nietzschean “Uebermensch (Superhuman) and saviour”.

    BTW this Abdus Salam too had this habit. In his Nobel-Prize acceptance-speech he too foolishly brought in the kuran (i.e. your arabic allah). One wonders why he did not ascribe his physics ideas to some “kuranic wahi” from this allah. May be that is why the pakistanis hate him. He failed to make thick propaganda for islam when he could have.

    So why grudge?

  39. Fellow-Pakistani

    @Bin Ismail:
    “……while according to “Fellow-Pakistani”, it would be “Mirza Mahmud Ahmad”.

    You got it right buddy!
    Here are reasons:

    1-Qadiani Khalifa 2 Mirza Mahmud Ahmad, divided individual families. Qadiani family members do NOT consider other non-Qadianis family members as Muslims. Qadiani do not marry their daughters to them, they do not offer their Janazah (funeral prayer).

    2-Qadiani Khalifa 2 Mirza Mahmud Ahmad, divided spiritual family of Mirza Ghulam Ahmad. Qadiani do NOT consider Lahori-Ahmadis as Muslims. Qadiani do not marry their daughters to them, they do not offer their Janazah (funeral prayer).

    3-Qadiani Khalifa 2 Mirza Mahmud Ahmad, divided spiritual family of Holy Prophet Muhammad SAW. Qadiani do NOT consider general Muslims as Muslims. Qadiani do not marry their daughters to them, they do not offer their Janazah (funeral prayer).

    QADIANIS DO ALL THIS IN LINE WITH TEACHINGS OF THEIR QADIANI KHALIFA 2 MIRZA MAHMUD AHMAD. In Pakistan it started with Chaudhry Zafarullah Khan and continued with likes of Bin Ismail.
    WHAT ELSE PROOF YOU NEED?????

  40. S.A

    @Fellow-Pakistani @amar

    Both of you are reinforcing my perception that prejudice and bigotry has rendered you blind, deaf and dumb.

    Amar’s mind is struck by hysteria over Islam and Fellow-Pakistani has lost his over Mirza Mahmud Ahmad. You appear to be nut cases.

    Peace!

  41. S.A

    @amar

    ‘kuran (i.e. your arabic allah)’

    Funny indeed!
    FYI: Allah is literal arabic for ‘The God’.
    I hope ‘God’ is less offensive to you than ‘Allah’.

    ‘Kuran’ is God’s word according to Islam. Can you perceive the difference?

  42. Nasir

    @ Fellow-Pakistani – you are a sad excuse for a human being – get a life! – (thats only if your not to busy taking lives)

  43. Nasir

    @ Fellow-Pakistani – hey is your day job working in a circus ? you sound like a clown!, you need to be bitch slapped

  44. Mubarak

    @fellow-Pakistani

    “Qadiani Khalifa 2 Mirza Mahmud Ahmad, divided individual families. ”
    Did not families become divided over their belief in Muhammad as well?

    “Qadiani family members do NOT consider other non-Qadianis family members as Muslims. ”

    simply incorrect

    “Qadiani do not marry their daughters to them, they do not offer their Janazah (funeral prayer).”

    This act of qadianis perfectly explains all the problems that exist in the world from the recent economic crashes to the floods that ravaged pakistan.

  45. skarlok

    @ kaalket

    “I mean no insult but this is one of the main reasons why Islam failed in India while it succeeded in civilizational Egypt and Persia lacking any philosophical deapth in spiritual sphere.”

    Obviously Indians are intellectually and spiritually superior to the persians and egyptians. No wonder this silly islam idea wasn’t good enough to convert them from worshipping cows.

  46. Amaar

    @Fellow-Pakistani

    “Qadiani Khalifa 2 Mirza Mahmud Ahmad, divided individual families. Qadiani family members do NOT consider other non-Qadianis family members as Muslims. Qadiani do not marry their daughters to them, they do not offer their Janazah (funeral prayer).”

    0. Well, do did Hazoor (sw)! Example: 1. Abu Bakr and his son, Ubaidah and his brother …and many others.

    1. Qadiani (if you must) Ahmadis DO consider Non-Ahmadi Muslims as Muslims – though not perfect believers. Period. Your claim is false and untenable.

    2. Indeed Ahmadis do not wed their daughters to Non-Ahmadis. But only for maintaining their
    ethical and moral teachings which are likely to be compromised by such marriages. Btw, under the same circumstances they also do not allow their men to marry out of community. However, if such marriages do occur, negatively as they may be viewed as, then they are still recognized as marriages.

    3. They indeed do not offer Janaza of Non-Ahmadis simply because Non-Ahmadi ulema have declared Ahmadis to be kafir. The ulema started this abuse and not Ahmadis.

    4. You keep repeating the same non-sense over and over again which has been answered time and again but to no avail for you. If you are still not satisfied then go join the ranks of mullahs. They are your brothers!

  47. Mubarak

    @kaalket
    this is what I found on wikipedia regarding neti neti:

    In Brhadaranyaka Upanishad, Yajnavalkya is questioned by his students to describe God. He states “The Divine is not this and it is not that” (neti, neti).

    Thus, the Divine is not real as we are real, nor is it unreal. The divine is not living in the sense humans live, nor is it dead. The Divine is not compassionate as we use the term, nor is it uncompassionate. And so on. We can never truly define God in words. All we can say, in effect, is that “It isn’t this, but also, it isn’t that either”. In the end, the student must transcend words to understand the nature of the Divine.

    This is quite close to the some of the transcendental qualities of God explained in the Quran and Hadith. So while neti-neti maybe a useful exercise, your incorrect application of it to Islam is quite unfortunate.

  48. Amaar

    @amar

    ‘BTW this Abdus Salam too had this habit. In his Nobel-Prize acceptance-speech he too foolishly brought in the kuran (i.e. your arabic allah). One wonders why he did not ascribe his physics ideas to some “kuranic wahi” from this allah. May be that is why the pakistanis hate him. He failed to make thick propaganda for islam when he could have. ‘

    Your thick-headedness knows no bounds!

    The name of God offends you but rubbing your nose before hapless idols and stones is rational?

  49. Bin Ismail

    @amar (November 23, 2010 at 10:49 pm)

    “…..The gods set each other standards and not we creatures…..”

    You and I obviously do not see eye to eye on this, among other things. I believe in a single God, the Lord and Cherisher of all, the Gracious, the Merciful and the Master of the day of judgement. You apparently, entertain the concept of many gods, though at times you appear to sound atheistic. What needs to be addressed, in my opinion, is not whether you are a polytheist or an agnostic or an atheist. Your beliefs are yours. What needs to be addressed is your tendency to generalize things and in a rather crude fashion. You also seem to grab hold of any opportunity you can get, to derail discussions at PTH. I realize that what you perceive as the “absolutist-finalist-totalitarian-fascist-arab-ideology-followed-by-quislings” does not exactly fascinate you, but you may later on, at some saner moment, also like to reassess the acuity of your own perceptions, sensory and extra-sensory both.

    @Kaalket (November 23, 2010 at 11:32 pm)

    “…..The Arabian Godhood falls short on almost all the high standards…..”

    Yes, I can see that your “high standards” do not exactly correspond with those recognized by your Creator.

    “…..God can be called Allah…..”

    Thank you. How magnanimous of you.

    @Fellow-Pakistani (November 24, 2010 at 1:46 am)

    Your questions have been answered several times and your slander dismissed repeatedly, but you seem to have been blessed with a most unique faculty of moving in circles. Your ability to derail discussions too, though equally unique, but is somewhat shared by “amar”. Your venomous rancour towards Mirza Mahmud Ahmad tends to benumb your rationality and your irrationality, in turn, fuels your malice towards Mirza Mahmud Ahmad. I sincerely hope this vicious circle does not become your “Janam Chakr”.

    No disrespect, but may I remind all that this discussion was originally meant to be in relation to Professor Abdus Salam.

  50. Mubarak


    BTW this Abdus Salam too had this habit. In his Nobel-Prize acceptance-speech he too foolishly brought in the kuran (i.e. your arabic allah).

    For some reason this amar cannot comprehend that Islam is beyond the arabo-politico-fascist definition he has limited it to. There are verses in the Quran that ecourage us to ponder over the workings of the universe and these verses fill the reflective reader with awe at the vastness and intricateness of the universe. It is from these verses Abdus-Salam found alot of his inspiration.

  51. Amaar

    @ kaalket

    “I mean no insult but this is one of the main reasons why Islam failed in India while it succeeded in civilizational Egypt and Persia lacking any philosophical deapth in spiritual sphere.”

    How genius!

    So how would you explain the enormous success of Islamic mysticism (Sufism) in the lands of Hinds with millions of local Hindus converting to Islam by a handful (a few thousand maybe) of Sufis?

    Dont argue that since the government was controlled by Muslims – Dehli sultante – hence they forced the millions of locals to become Muslims. If you go that path then by your logic the whole of India should have become Muslim by the times of Mughals through the use of coercion and sword. Yet there is no shred of evidence to buy that theory. Muslims conversions happened primarily during the era of Dehli Sultanate not by the Sultans but by these Islamic mystics.

    Get your facts right kaalket!

  52. Kaalket

    Amaar,
    We now know the real nature of Sufis and their attitude toward Kuffar. India always contained large portion of humanity and few simpletons were bound to get duped and fall for trickery . But no one can fool all the people all the time and now this modern era of freedom of thought, technology and information will separate human milk from muddy water. Both physical and dogmatic ( not spiritual as it contained none of this ) Islam failed in india. Just mention one Muslim country with freedom of thought and you will find none. They know critical examining will be the beginning of the end.

  53. libertarian

    @Bin Ismail: I believe in a single God, the Lord and Cherisher of all, the Gracious, the Merciful and the Master of the day of judgement.

    And I believe in Mickey Mouse.

  54. Kaalket

    Mubarak,
    First, your own statement makes it clear that there is nothing spiritually new which Islam brought in india . Neti Net is just one of the many methods for Godly understanding and require not intervetion or favor from any Prohpet, Messenger but only one’s own expansion in finer fields of consciousness. While transcendental qualities of God are not be comprehended or define by human limitation, it is the deeds and exhortion of suppsoed God which makes the difference. Transcendental God dont demand Human or Animal sarifice to please Him and dont differentiate the humanity or all the creatures of creation according their level of understanding or belief of Divine. Quranic Personal God repeatedly does that and intervene at every convenient ocassion on behalf of particular groupping thus become suspect in moral and Divine Principles. Declaration of physical pleasures , rewards, language of Khum, loot, Booty, right hand possesion etc approved by this God cant be cosidered high even by human standard. It might get introduced at Lords of all Worlds and Mercy for all but actions speak louder than words. Arabs might have been Jahils but rest assure Indians were not and neither were Chinese. We needed none of this , Chinese still dont even slightly entertain the idea .Islam took control only on spiritually void societies and failed when confronted Physically in Europe and both Intellectually and physically in India. Even the existence of Pakistan ,which is neither spiritually Indic nor Pure like Arab, is the proof of its retreat. Arabs needed Islam and good for them, lets not try to assign universal nature to this regional phenomenon. On Indian Subcontinent its guilty of crime against humanity.

  55. Mubarak


    First, your own statement makes it clear that there is nothing spiritually new which Islam brought in india .

    In reality Islam recognizes that there are elements of truth in all religions. the Quran recognizes that countless prophets have graced the earth and dispensed divine wisdom. But to say that Islam brought nothing spiritually new to the subcontinent is misguided because it brought the most up to date teachings on how man can be at one with his creator and many from the subcontinent adopted these teachings.

    Neti Net is just one of the many methods for Godly understanding and require not intervetion or favor from any Prohpet, Messenger but only one’s own expansion in finer fields of consciousness.

    I disagree. Guidance from a prophet is highly necessary for the correct application of neti neti. Even in Hinduism there have been spiritual guides. Even as you are using this concept of neti neti, it was something passed on to you from someone and you are using guidance from someone. Many of the rituals and worshipping in Hinduism was at one point created and passed on which everyone else then follows.

    Transcendental God dont demand Human or Animal sarifice to please Him and dont differentiate the humanity or all the creatures of creation according their level of understanding or belief of Divine.

    Unfortunately this is an incorrect understanding of your’s regarding the concept of animal sacrifice in Islam. The purpose of animal sacrifice is a symbolic remembrance of Abraham’s sacrifice and willingness to obey God. God’s pleasure does not reside as you incorrectly attribute to Islam in the mere act of sacrificing an animal, it resides in the human spiritual upliftment that occurs at the annihilation of the self that occurs as divine understanding increases. If God is the architect of mankind, the creation has the responsibility to correctly acknowledge the Creator.

    Arabs needed Islam and good for them

    this constant referral of Allah is arabian and arab god has some traces of deep seated rancor towards arab people. The concept of God presented in the Quran is highly universal in nature. And this is why people from many different races have accepted it.

  56. Ahmed

    I am amazed at how non-muslim Pakistanis are minimized and ignored by us. It is not a single instance of ignoring Abdus Salam, but a consistent trend at all levels. Do people know that Abdus Salam was not the first physics Nobelist born in Pakistani Punjab? The equally great (if not greater) Nobelist S. Chandrasekar (after whom the largest X-ray space observatory ever built is named) was born in Lahore (albeit to immigrant Hindu parents). And, of course, we ignore thousands of years of our own glorious (Hindu and Buddhist) civilization since it is non-islamic. For all we know and care, the nomadic (largely illiterate) Arab marauders from the desert brought us our civilization! May God help us!!

    Ahmed

  57. no-communal

    It’s good that you mentioned Chandrasekhar. He was one of the greatest astrophysicist of all time.

  58. Fellow-Pakistani

    TO ALL QADIANIS ON THIS FORUM:

    Fair minded and honest people can read the quotes, of Qadiani Khalifa 2 Mirza mahmud Ahmad and other elders of Qadianis, that i have provided. And they very well can see through you qadianis that how you people are bending over backwords to twist and try to wiggle out of my iron grip. but you all Qadianis fail.
    Allah-O-Akbar.

  59. MilesToGo

    Do you guys know where the name “Lahor” comes from?

  60. Iqbal

    Dr. Salam zindabad, indeed.

  61. O J DEEN

    ALHAMDU LILLAH !!!!
    An Ahmadi Muslim being awarded the nobel prize for his work in Physics in 1979.

    Dr. Abdus Salam is the first ever Muslim to have achieved this honour.

    His achievement was a fulfilment of the prophecy of the Promised Messiah (AS) that his followers will excel other.

    Abdus Salam’s work in Pakistan has been far reaching and influential. He has made extraordinary contributions to Pakistan’s nuclear, space and missile programs.

    Therefore, in 1998, the Government of Pakistan issued a commemorative stamp to honour the services of Abdus Salam as part of its “Scientists of Pakistan” series.

    He has a way of keeping his administrative staff at the ICTP fully alive to the real aim of the Centre – the fostering through training and research of the advancement of theoretical physics, with special regard to the needs of developing countries. Inspired by their personal regard for him and encouraged by the fact that he works harder than any of them, the staff cheerfully submit to working conditions that would be unthinkable here at the (International Atomic Energy Agency in Vienna (IAEA). The money he received from the Atoms for Peace Medal and Award he spent on setting up a fund for young Pakistani physicists to visit the ICTP. He uses his share of the Nobel Prize entirely for the benefit of physicists from developing countries and does not spend a penny of it on himself or his family.

    Abdus Salam is known to be a devout Muslim, whose religion does not occupy a separate compartment of his life; it is inseparable from his work and family life.
    He once wrote:
    “The Holy Quran enjoins us to reflect on the verities of Allah’s created laws of nature; however, that our generation has been privileged to glimpse a part of His design is a bounty and a grace for which I render thanks with a humble heart.”
    Abdus Salam was a devout Muslim, and a member of the Ahmadiyya Muslim Community[9], who saw his religion as integral to his scientific work.

    He once wrote: “The Holy Quran enjoins us to reflect on the verities of Allah’s created laws of nature; however, that our generation has been privileged to glimpse a part of His design is a bounty and a grace for which I render thanks with a humble heart.”
    During his acceptance speech for the Nobel Prize in Physics, Salam quoted the following verses from the Quran:
    “ Thou seest not, in the creation of the All-merciful any imperfection, Return thy gaze, seest thou any fissure. Then Return thy gaze, again and again. Thy gaze, Comes back to thee dazzled, aweary. ”
    He then said:
    “ This, in effect, is the faith of all physicists; the deeper we seek, the more is our wonder excited, the more is the dazzlement for our gaze.”

    In 1974, when the Parliament of Pakistan declared Ahmadis to be non-Muslims, he left Pakistan for London in protest.
    The defaced grave of Abdus Salam in Rabwah
    Salam died on 21st November 1996 at the age of 70 in Oxford, England after a long illness.
    His body was brought to Pakistan and kept in Darul Ziafat, where some 13,000 men and women visited to pay their last respects.
    Some 30,000 people attended his funeral prayers.
    Salam was buried in the graveyard Bahishti Maqbara in Rabwah next to his parents’ graves.

    The epitaph on his tomb initially read “First Muslim Nobel Laureate” but, because of Salam’s adherence to the Ahmadiyya Muslim sect, the word “Muslim” was later erased on the orders of a local magistrate, leaving the non-sensical “First Nobel Laureate”.
    Salam was responsible for laying the groundwork for the Pakistan Atomic Energy Commission, initiating research on problems of waterlogging and salinity, and agricultural research.
    He played a crucial role in PAEC and SUPARCO, the National Space Agency of Pakistan.
    He helped Pakistan’s scientists and engineers to be trained in nuclear applications and nuclear science.
    “Dr. Abdus Salam was responsible for sending about 500 physicists, mathematicians and scientists from Pakistan, for PhD’s to the best institutions in UK and USA”

    Abdus Salam died on November 21, 1996.

  62. Talha

    @ Fellow-Pakistani

    You are a complete moron.

    Go back to your garbage blog and make up some more quotes from there.

    Or better yet go to AlHafeez or The Cult to get some more of these quotes.

    What a F’ing loon.

  63. Bin Ismail

    @libertarian (November 24, 2010 at 6:00 am)

    To quote my humble self, “…I believe in a single God, the Lord and Cherisher of all, the Gracious, the Merciful and the Master of the day of judgement…” and if I may quote your worthy self, “…I believe in Mickey Mouse…”.

    All I can say is “lakum deenukum wa liya deen” [Quran 109:6].

    May my Allah have mercy on me and may your Mickey Mouse have mercy on you. Amen.

  64. Bin Ismail

    @Fellow-Pakistani (November 24, 2010 at 10:24 am)

    “…my iron grip…”

    …made of spaghetti ?

  65. amar

    It is my task to find out contradictions in those who wish to convert others to their sect or belief or nation or group-psycho and warn the gullible.

    It is unimportant in which direction a discussion goes so long it is held in a decent (can be also a harsh but honest) fashion.

    So don’t reduce yourself to ridiculing me – it helps no one, least of all the religiously and ideologically gullible/misguided/misused in Pakistan.

    As an Indian I don’t expect anything good from Pakistan and its imported alien religion – but at least I try to reduce the dangers which contradictions bring with themselves.

    If I commit any contradictions then I will be thankful for your pointing them out.

  66. Humanity

    This thread has been totally derailed and should be abandoned.

    Let Fellow-Pakistani and amar, the contradictions, tango. Every one else , lets move on to meaningful dialogues.

  67. Ayesha

    Dr. Abdul Salam, If your own people do not appreciate your contributions to your country, the world appreciate you. God will reward you abundantly as promised.
    lm so proud to also know that you were an Ahmadi Muslim.
    May Allah count you among the righteous on the day of judgement. Ameen.

  68. Fellow-Pakistani

    @Talha
    November 24, 2010 at 2:37 pm
    @ edited

  69. Bin Ismail

    Slander and calumny are the two trades, in which “Fellow-Pakistani” excels. His schizophrenia seems to be aggravating by the moment. History tells us that the most innocent of people were subjected to the most vile of slander. Ibrahim (Abraham) was accused of lying, Yusuf (Joseph) of lewdness, Maryam (Mary) of adultery, Hussain of apostasy and so on. Mirza Mahmud Ahmad is not the first man of God to be attacked by an ailing mind and a profane tongue.

  70. Talha

    @ Fellow-Pakistani

    Shameless man, why are there so many grammatical errors in your quotes?

    Also why are these quotes only posted in some Lahore Ahmadiyya forum.

    You are a waste, even Mullahs don’t use your quotes.

  71. Fellow-Pakistani

    EDITED

  72. Fellow-Pakistani

    @Bin Ismail
    November 24, 2010 at 11:41 pm
    ARE YOU DENYING SERMONS OF YOUR QADIANI KHALIFA 2 MIRZA MAHMUD AHMAD?????

    WELL THIS WAS REAL MIRZA MAHMUD AHMAD YOUR SO CALLED “MUSLEH-MAHUD”.

  73. it is a tragedy the way he was treated by pakistni govt, he was never honoured, just bec iof his faith
    in contrast Dr abdul kalam in india was made the president of india in trhanks for his contribution to indian science
    we never biothred about his religion, and he was the most popular president of india

    i cnnot undestand what differenv=ceit makes if he was a qadian, if for a momment we beleive they are wrong ect ect then god will punish then why should we be bothred

    i read somewhere, it goes like this

    allah does not need your protection and help, u need allah protection and help

    so let the qadians be

  74. Milestogo

    Give it some time, mullahs will make abdus salam pure Islamic like they have done to Jinnah. All it takes is time and history books manipulation.

  75. Bin Ismail

    @Fellow-Pakistani (November 25, 2010 at 2:53 am)

    “…..ARE YOU DENYING SERMONS OF YOUR QADIANI KHALIFA 2 MIRZA MAHMUD AHMAD?????…..”

    No, I’m denying the possibility of any sanity emanating from you. For the time being, you could do yourself a favour by undoing the Caps Lock and taking some time off.

  76. Mubarak

    @ milestogo
    If the mullas do anything it would be to make AndusSalam un Islamic. as far as I know abduaalam was a practicing devout Muslim. the only further step the mulla can take him would be to make him like them. I feel is quite unislamic

  77. Mubarak

    @rich

    i cnnot undestand what differenv=ceit makes if he was a qadian, if for a momment we beleive they are wrong ect ect then god will punish then why should we be bothred


    That is exactly what ahmadis have been telling pakistanfor the past 100 something years

  78. amaar

    @Fellow Pakistani

    After reading your obsessive-compulsive comments, I think you are in need of psychiatric help.

  79. Md Iqbal

    @Fellow Pakistani

    You used to post comments under the name “Rashid”. Why have you changed your identity?

  80. Prasad

    BCiv //pakistan’s ‘boldest’ son was aimal kansi. now he has a sister – afia siddiqui.//

    BCiv today being 26/11 , pakistan should also celebrate Ajmal Kasab and ten other butchers and their handlers Hafeez Saeed and multiple animals from the famed mental asylum called ISI???

    these folks are celebrating Pakistan in true sense !!! bumb for bumb, missile for missle wah!

    I am writing this to ‘celebrate’ their adventures on 26/11 on hundreds of innocent families in Mumbai. These cowards and millions of such cowards growing in your masjids will ruin your nation going forward if you citizens of Pakistan dont reign them.

    Thank you

  81. Hamid

    @ ALL THE HATERS AHMADIYYAT ZINDABAAD!!!