Shame on all Mullahs – the real enemies of Pakistan

The contributions of Ahmadis both to the creation of Pakistan and to its progress are innumerable.  While the Mullahs -who now have become the chachas and mamas of Pakistan – were abusing the Quaid-e-Azam and Pakistan as Kafir-e-Azam and Kafiristan,  Ahmadis worked diligently for the Pakistan Movement. This is a fact of history many in Pakistan now wish to deny. Today Ahmadis are persecuted in the country they helped found by people who were its worst enemies!
TRIBUNE EDITORIAL : NO PEACE FOR THE DEAD

Interred body of an Ahmedi exhumed from a Muslim graveyard after protests held against the burial.

What should one say about the forcible disinterment of an Ahmadi corpse from a Muslim graveyard in Bhalwal, Punjab, on Sunday, except that it is a conundrum born out of our religious narrow-mindedness? The police asked the Ahmadi family to dig up the body themselves, or face public protest and possible violence. When they did not do so, the police, led by the local DSP, exhumed the body and handed it over to the family.

If you read Ahmadi literature listing what Pakistan is doing to them, you will think this is a small incident that can be ignored. The police look the other way when terrorists descend on their beats but will catch helpless citizens like transvestites and Ahmadis to win cheap acclaim. The official version is that some powerful Muslim clerics of Sargodha had warned that if the Ahmadi corpse was not taken out they would cause great disturbance.

The police had the law on their side: Ahmadis are not Muslims under the Second Amendment to the Constitution: they can’t say the kalima, they can’t call their places of worship mosques and they are to be treated as a non-Muslim minority not qualified for zakat. The question is, how can non-Muslims be buried in Muslim graveyards? Are Christians ever buried along with Muslims? The common man will not care to examine this kind of argument carefully but a conscientious man can.

The argument cuts two ways. Christians and Muslims don’t bury their dead in each other’s graveyards because they want to retain their religious identity. If a Christian seeks out his “gora” (non-pejorative) cemetery he does not accept the Muslim ritual on the pain of being buried as a Muslim. Similarly, a Muslim avoids the Christian cemetery for fear of losing his Muslim identity.

The Bhalwal Ahmadi family has protested that the police have violated a tradition that the local community had accepted. Dozens of Ahmadis lie buried in the Muslim graveyard from the days when Ahmadis were considered Muslims. The police have not exhumed any of these bodies. But this is where one can indict the wisdom of the law that declared Ahmadis non-Muslim followed by other absurd disabilities like not reciting the kalima.

What should be done about marriages that took place between Ahmadis and non-Ahmadis before the Ahmadis were apostatised? Should they be declared null and void; and if so, what about the legitimacy of their offspring? What about cross-sect marriages that still take place? And what about Muslim women who are not allowed to wed non-Muslims? Ahmadis are not considered ‘Ahle Kitab’ (people of the book). In that case, not even Muslim males are allowed to wed an Ahmadi even though they can marry Christians and Jews. Can we put thousands of couples to death for living in sin brought about by a constitutional amendment?

A graveyard defines the man who lies buried therein. A humane interpretation, had it suggested itself to the DSP in question, would be that an Ahmadi who accepts to be buried in a Muslim graveyard automatically converts back to his Muslim identity. After all, the majority principle should matter in graveyards too. Moreover, laws that regulate human rights are supposed to be universal. Yet the Ahmadis living in India and elsewhere in the world are considered Muslims and treated as such. In many cases, local communities share their graveyards if Ahmadis are isolated from their own community, as happened in Bhalwal. It is strange that the moment an Ahmadi crosses over to India he becomes a Muslim. And the Shia community, whom many Sunni clerics declare non-Muslim on the basis that their kalima, namaz and burial rituals are different, have not been apostatised by our parliament. The Bahais, apostatised by Iran, are still Muslims in Pakistan.

The Ahmadis have been dealt with unjustly and inhumanely. The unthinking law we have enacted to persecute them portrays us as an evil state to the world.

Published in The Express Tribune, November 4th, 2010.

43 Comments

Filed under Pakistan

43 responses to “Shame on all Mullahs – the real enemies of Pakistan

  1. O J DEEN

    “There shall be no compulsion in religion for guidance and error have been clearly distinguished”. (2:257)

    The Holy Prophet (peace be upon him) according to whom a mere recitation of the creed was sufficient to bring someone into the fold of Islam as we read in the following hadith:

    “Usamah ibn Zaid relates: The Holy Prophet (pbuh) sent us on a scouting expedition to Huraqah, a valley of Juhnah and we arrived at its springs in the morning.
    A man of the Ansar and I came upon one of their men and when we had covered him he called out: There is none worthy of worship save Allah. On this the Ansari held back, but I finished him off with my spear.
    When we returned to Medina, this incident came to the knowledge of the Holy Prophet (pbuh), he asked me: Usama, did you kill him after he had affirmed: There is none worthy of worship save Allah?
    I said: Messenger of Allah, he made the affirmation only to save himself.
    He said again: Did you kill him after he had affirmed: There is none worthy of worship save Allah?
    He went on repeating it till I wished I had not accepted Islam before that day

    .” Another version is “Holy Prophet said:
    Did he affirm: There is none worthy of worship save Allah; and yet you killed him?
    I said: Messenger of Allah, he said it out of fear of our arms.
    He said: Why did you not cleave his heart to discover whether he had said it from his heart or not?
    He kept repeating it till I wished I had accepted Islam only that day.
    (Riyadh as-Salihin, ch. 49 Hadith #396 on the authority of Bokhari and Muslim).

    Hazrat Ali narrates that the Holy Prophet (swa) said:
    ” A time will come when nothing will remain of Islam except its Name, and nothing will remain of the Quran except its Script. Mosques will be full of woreshippers but as far as righteousness is concerned they will be emty.
    Their Ulemas (religious scholars) will be the worst creatures under the Sky.
    Evil will plot from them and to them it will return.”
    refrence al-Baihaqi as quoted in al-Mishkat Kitab-ul ‘Ilm, chapter 3, p. 38 and Kanzul ‘Ummal, chapter 6, p. 43

    O ye who believe ! be strict in observing justice and be witnesses for ALLAH, even though it be against yourselves or against your parents or kindred. Whether he, against whom witness is borne, be rich or poor, ALLAH is more regardful of them both than you are. Therefore follow not your low desires that you may be able to act equitably. And if you hide the truth or evade it, then know that ALLAH is Well-Aware of what you do.
    (Holy Quran: 4:136)

    O ye who believe ! fear Allah as HE should be feared; and let not death overtake you except when you are in a state of submission.
    And hold fast, all together, to the rope of Allah and be not divided; and remember the favour of Allah which HE bestowed upon you when you were enemies and HE united your hearts in love, so that by HIS grace you became as brothers; and you were on the brink of a pit of fire and HE saved you from it. Thus does Allah explain to you HIS commandments that you may be guided.
    And let there always be among you a body of men who should invite to goodness, and enjoin virtue and forbid evil. And it is they who shall prosper.
    (Holy Quran: 3:103-105)

    The gist of the faith to which I adhere is :-
    La Ilaha Illallaho Mohammadur Rasoolullah (There is non worthy of worship except God and Muhammad, peace be on him, is His messenger).

    What I believe in, here in this world and to which I would stick till I pass away from this world, with the grace of God, is that Our Chief and Master the Holy Prophet Mohammad, peace be on him, is the Khatamun Nabiyyin (Seal of the Prophets) and the best of the Messengers; it was at his hands that the religion was perfected and the Bounty of God which can lead a man to the communion of God, saw his completion. (Izala-i-Auham Part 1, p-137)

  2. Talha

    Deen-e-Mullah Fi-sabililahi Fasad.

  3. Milestogo

    Conversion is one thing that doesn’t feel like divine.

  4. Midfield Dynamo

    The gist of the faith to which I adhere is :-
    La Ilaha Illallaho Mohammadur Rasoolullah (There is non worthy of worship except God and Muhammad, peace be on him, is His messenger).
    please note that in the arabic text there is no ‘peace be upon him’, yet in the translation there is.
    could some one throw some light on this. thank you

  5. Talha

    @ Midfield Dynamo

    “La Ilaha Illallaho Mohammadur Rasoolullah”

    Direct translation:

    “There is no god but Allāh, Muhammad is Allāh’s Messenger”

    Peace be upon him is added as a mark of respect to the Prophet whenever his name is mentioned.

    Btw, just reciting the Kalima makes one a Muslim, but not in the ‘Land of the Pure’ where you have to receive a certificate from the government who apparently can decide on Allah’s behalf.

    No wonder Pakistan is rocked by one disaster after another.

  6. Sardar Khan.

    What a joke that ahmadis were in favour of Pakistan.Reality is we lost part of punjab due to the stupid demand of ahmidis for mirza’s birthplace be given a seperate entity and shouldn’t be part of Pakistan.Who do you want to make fool by claiming this lie?
    Further it is ahmadis who do not consider mainstream Muslims as muslims.It they who refuse say prayers in congregation behind a Suni Imam even if they are lucky enough to go to Holy Mecca for Umrah or Hujj,they must perform jamaat behind an ahmadi imam.What a joke,they want to be buried in a Muslim Graveyard,while they won’t accept Suni Imam to lead in Jamat Prayers.You want best of all world/do not accept Imam but be burried in a Muslim Graveyard.It is not Mullahs but you who is misslead hypocracy to belame proper believers and blame Pakistanis to get assylum in the west on these false flags.
    Just accept unless you believe Prophet Muhammud(PBUH) as the last Prophet of ALLAH(SUB).You are not a muslim and can not ask for the previlge to be treated as muslim at all.

  7. Sammy C.

    @Sardar Khan

    Your post is full of bigoted lies. Please Just give one reliable reliable reference about your claim that “””Reality is we lost part of punjab due to stupid demand of ahmidis for Mirzas birth place be given seperate entity and shouldn’t be part of Pakistan””””

    THIS IS A BLATANT SHAMELESS LIES. Please prove me wrong, if you can by providing reliable references, otherwise admit this is TOTAL LIES.

    The rest of your post is really ignorant bluster and lies..

  8. Bilal Ahmad

    Dear Sardar Khan, following is text from Report of Court of Inquiry 1954 which shows SERVICES OF AHMADIS in making of Pakistan. On page 197 it says “ Vile and unfounded charges have been levelled against the Ahmadis that the district of Gurdaspur was assigned to India by the Award of the Boundary Commission because of the attitude adopted by the Ahmadis and the arguments addressed by Chaudhri Zafrullah Khan who had been selected by the Quaid-i-Azam to present the case of the Muslim League before that Commission. But the President of this Court, who was a Member of that Commission, considers it his duty to record his gratitude to Chaudhri Zafrullah Khan for the valiant fight he put up for Gurdaspur. This is apparent from the record of the Boundary Commission which anyone who is interested may see. For the selfless services rendered by him to the Muslim community, it is shameless ingratitude for anyone to refer to Chaudhri Zafrullah Khan in the manner in which he has been referred to by certain parties before the Court of Inquiry.”
    Regarding your objection that Ahmadis shouldn’t be buried in Muslims’s graveyard as they don’t offer prayers behind non-Ahmadi imams, no ahmadi is dying to be buried in our graveyards, but if somebody has been buried then should we exhumed them. Also in Pakistan does all sects offer prayers behind imam of other sects, no so should government start designating separate graveyards for every sect in every district.
    Fact is that our hatred against Ahmadis is a reflection of our devotion to mulla’s hatred. This hatred had destroyed countries before us and if we don’t stop it, our destiny will be no different. Please don’t distort history by saying things which are historically wrong.

  9. Talha

    @ Sardar Khan Bacha Baz

    What nonsense are you spewing over here.

    Ahmadis did not ask for Qadian to be given a separate identity, that is absolutly untrue and something the likes of you make up just to keep yoursleves happy. Pakistan laid claim to Qadian as a Muslim Holy cite but were unsuccesful in getting it.

    Similarly Ahmadis supported Pakistan which you goat humpers would always deny. Its well known that when Shaukat Hayat Khan went to Ahmadi’s with the idea of Pakistan at the behest of Jinnah, Ahmadis welcomed the idea and lend their full support to the creation of Pakistan.

    Lahore Resolution was written by an Ahmadi who also represented Pakistan at the Radcliffe Commission. Look up the correspondonce between Quaid-e-Azam and the second Khalifa of Ahmadis who spent time working together for Pakistan. Ahmadis even fought in Kashmir under Furqan Batallion while pansies like you were forming their groups. I am sure you know the reality and I do not want to repeat the services of Ahmadis for Pakistan but you will continue to block them.

    Ahmadi’s consider other Muslims to be Muslims, thats another lie fermented by Mullahs to demonize them. Anyone who recites the Kalima and calls himself a Muslim is a Muslim.

    They also pray behind Imams from other sects granted he does not consider them to be infidels worth killing. Btw I would never pray behind a crazed mullah or the likes of you.

    Chutiya there are more Pakistanis who claim Asylum in other countries on false pretenses than Ahmadis. Ahmadi’s are discriminated heavily in all forms of life, but bastards like you would not realise that.

    Ahmadis do beleive that in the Khatme-Nabuwat but hold Mirza Ghulam Ahmed as the foretold reformer and awaited one.

    You mullahs are a joke.

  10. YLH

    Sardar khan mian it seems that honesty and integrity are not high priority for you.

  11. Tilsim

    @ Sardar Khan

    In many countries Muslims are buried in cemetries alongside people of different faiths. We should extend the same privilege to our fellow humans. Us Pakistanis should do the same as a good example of our common humanity.

  12. Humanity

    While the superior Muslims busy themselves the digging open graves, the real pie is being divvied up behind closed doors .. Check out “$260 billion gold mines going for a song, behind closed doors” on thenew.com.pk/03-11-2010

  13. O J DEEN

    Don’t you feel that the world today needs the divine guidance more than ever before?
    Is it not the time when servants of God are being drawn away from God, by the glamour of material world, more than ever before?
    If your conscience replies in the affirmative then please give due importance to the call of one who claimed to be sent by Allah (God) in order to re-establish the real and certain contact and relation of humans with Him.

    Holy Prophet (peace be upon him) is reported to have said:

    “One who dies without accepting the Imam (Appointed by Allah) of the time, his death is a death in disbelief”. [53] (Musnath Ahmad Bin Hambal Vol 4. P 96.)

    “And there is no Mahdi, but Jesus, son of Mary”
    (Ibne Maajah Vol 2 P 509)

    Regarding Imam Mahdi, our beloved master said:

    “When you see him (Imam Mahdi) then certainly perform bait to him even if you have to crawl over your knees through the mountains of snow because he (Imam Mahdi) will be the Khalifa of Allah.” [54]. (Ibne Maajah)

    “One who obeyed Imam Mahdi obeyed me, one who disobeyed him disobeyed me” [55]. (Beharul Anwar Vol 13 P 17 )
    (DISBELIEVERS ) ( KAFIR )

    “One who rejected Imam Mahdi he did kufr” [56].

    Do we see the promise of Allah made in the words, “And thou seest men entering the religion of Allah in troops.”, being fulfilled again in favor of Ahmadiyya Movement in Islam.

    LOVE FOR ALL HATRED FOR NONE

  14. Bin Ismail

    @Sardar Khan (November 4, 2010 at 7:56 pm)

    Please be assured that submitting a rebuttal to your allegations is hardly a challenge. Please also be assured that having their dead drawn out of the graves does in no way ride the conscience of Ahmadis. If anything this piece of news leaves the collective conscience of all decent Pakistanis perturbed.

    This news item, my friend relates less to Ahmadis and more to Pakistan. No patriot would like to see the name of his country maligned by such acts of sub-human bigotry. As for Ahmadis, please be assured, that not only do they not seek your certificate of Islam. They would most likely cast aside one, if ever issued, with absolute indifference.

  15. Prasad

    //There is no god but Allāh, Muhammad is Allāh’s Messenger//

    This clarification is requested from Bin Ismail. This statement was OK in 800 AD when the arab world knew nothing about the civilizations in China or lets say Indian sub continent. Probably they knew Farsis and the Greco Egypt civilization in Egypt. When such ‘foundation’ of a statement is so wildly popular amongst the muslim community, how do you expect tolerance, democracy et al in the society. Democracy flowers only when there is tolerance. Tolerance flowers only when there is lack of ‘totalitarian’ concepts in the society. Lack of totalitarian concepts are due to sheer diversity amongst the society right?

    At this instance, an average muslim thinks a hindu /christian/farsi to be a non believer and then decides to rid this person from the society, how can you claim that person as a ‘fundamentalist’ ?

    Educated muslims who have travelled and have mingled with other cultures will be cool. How about someone like a Fazlur Rehman who could go for the kill citing holy text? Can you ever have a democracy when the very foundation is against it????

    cheers

  16. Dunno

    Mr sardar Khan,
    Please read up the proper history of our country instead of just walking out of a mosque and under the influence of an equally ignorant mullah start writing utter non-sense.

  17. Midfield Dynamo

    The gist of the faith to which I adhere is :-
    La Ilaha Illallaho Mohammadur Rasoolullah (There is non worthy of worship except God and Muhammad, peace be on him, is His messenger).
    please note that in the arabic text there is no ‘peace be upon him’, yet in the translation there is.

    The intent is not to be blasphemous, but to highlight a tendency, where corollaries are added in trying to be holier then the pope. It is in the same vein Ahmedis became non Muslims and Shias Kafirs etc. etc.

    Christianity has indulged in religious persecution of perhaps greater intensity then Islam which has now simmered down to a level of tolerance which is acceptable by all groups whether large or small. Islam should learn from their mistakes rather then continue in their wake and make the same mistakes and be a laughing stock for the world.

  18. Bin Ismail

    @Prasad (November 5, 2010 at 12:55 pm)

    In response to your questions:

    1: The statement “there is no god but Allah, Muhammad is the messenger of Allah” does in no way suggest that someone who chooses not to affirm this will not be respected. This statement needs to endorsed only by an individual, who of free choice, opts to accept the message of Islam. Once he accepts the message of Islam, he has to endorse the following fundamental principles of the Quran:

    a. “There is no coercion in matters of religion” (2:256 )
    b. “Whoever chooses to believe let him believe and whoever chooses to disbelieve let him disbelieve” (18:29)
    c. “Your religion is for you and my religion is for me” (109:6)
    d. “And revile not those deities whom they call upon beside Allah” (6:108)

    2: The affirmation “there is no god but Allah” does not at all propose or permit any compulsion towards those who do not affirm this, nor does it in any way deny the right of anyone who disagrees with it, to stick to his own faith. In fact this affirmation goes in conjunction with the commandment “revile not those deities whom they call upon beside Allah”[6:108]

    3: The statement “Muhammad is the messenger of Allah” simply affirms the messengership of Muhammad. It does not suggest that there is no messenger beside Muhammad.

    4: Islam’s foundation is in no way against democracy. In fact the verse “There is no coercion in matters of religion”[2:256], if anything, suggests clearly that state should be kept separate from religion because bringing statecraft into religion or religion into statecraft is bound to attract the element of coercion into religion, which is not permissible by the Quran.

    Regards.

  19. Prasad

    Bin Ismail//November 5, 2010 at 8:43 pm//

    I appreciate your revert. I guess it could have come only from a deeply religious tolerant educated friend from Pakistan. Having said that, this definition may not be the same from the misguided mullah educated youth in millions in your country. Every day ( even yesterday) we hear of bombs in sufi shrines. In other words, those who ‘deviate’ from core tenets of islam ie. ‘La ilaha…’ are in danger. Your view seems a minority one…Not sure if I am right or other wise. However the intolerance stems from the misguided rulings these clergy make of the holy book.

    everyday there is an attack on a sufi shrine ( believing in diversity)…the reason I am sure lies in the core beliefs including La ilaha….

    Cheers

  20. Prasad

    As the brilliant Shyam Benegal brought out in ‘Bharat Ek Khoj’ serials during late 1980’s..brings out a stanza from ancient texts praising Sun for all the good things in life on Earth ( which actually is the truth!!)

    नासदासीन्नोसदासीत्तादानीं नासीद्रजो नो व्योमापरो यत |
    किमावरीव: कुहकस्यशर्मन्नम्भ: किमासीद्गहनं गभीरं ||

    Goodness(being) did not exist before all things came to be
    Evil(nonbeing) did not exist either
    The atmosphere did not exist as well
    The sky too was not present
    Was anything hidden? Where?
    Who had covered it?
    At that moment
    Unmoving, strong ocean was not there either

    Who is the doer of all things?
    Is that a doer or non-doer?
    Living in the high skies?
    Always plays the part of the leader?
    Only that knows the truth
    Or maybe that does not
    No one knows really, No one knows
    No one knows really, No one knows

    When we realise this….each one of us become tolerant!

  21. Bin Ismail

    @Prasad

    With respectful reference to your last two posts:

    1. I must acknowledge, without any regret, that my views, most certainly, do not represent the majority.

    2. I fully endorse your inference that “..the intolerance stems from the misguided rulings these clergy make of the holy book..”. Very well said. I could not possibly have put it in better words. However, be they guided or misguided, religious interpretations, in my humble opinion, need to be kept entirely out of politics as well as statecraft. Nothing short of a complete divorce between politics and religion is essential.

    3. With respect to your opinion, “..the reason I am sure lies in the core beliefs including La ilaha..”, I believe that the true reason behind terroristic inclinations is not and can never be “laa ilaaha illallah”. If anything, intolerance stems from idolization of the “self” or in other words the “ego”, which is actually a contravention of “laa ilaaha illallah”. Intolerance is, in reality, a form of self-worship, whereas tolerance demands a degree of self-negation.

    4. The translation of the exceptional Bengali poem you’ve posted, is an interesting blend of humbleness, mysticism and agnosticism, all in one. With special reference to the last lines, may I add that I believe that the higher levels of certitude regarding God cannot be achieved by human endeavour alone. It is achieved only when God Himself reveals Himself to man’s spiritual senses, of His own grace.

    Regards and Happy Diwali.

  22. Prasad

    Thanks Bin Ismail. The lines are part of Rigveda and in Samskrut. Appreciate your revert.

    Wish you and family a very happy Deepawali!

    Cheers

  23. fightingchance71

    I agree that ego/intolerance compromises the concept of oneness of the Almighty and could be construed as self worship.

    Although the concept of God revealing Himself to man in support his dreams and aspirations is intangible, maybe true, but needs a third eye to see or a special skin to feel most importantly a brain to comprehend His bounties without the stigma or the constraints of organized religion.

    Organized religion is coercive, dogmatic worst of all dynastic. It exploits the sensitivities of the naive for vested interests of its leaders. An abhorrent system of godliness.

  24. Bin Ismail

    @fightingchance (November 6, 2010 at 7:37 pm)

    “…..Organized religion is coercive, dogmatic worst of all dynastic. It exploits the sensitivities of the naive for vested interests of its leaders. An abhorrent system of godliness…..”

    We have to distinguish between “Religion” per se and “Clergy”. A study of history would suggest that it was the clergy and more specifically the politically inclined clergy, that became the cause of coercion, not religion itself.

  25. fightingchance71

    @ Bin Ismail

    Unfortunately there is no organization in religion without its clergy. If you could propose a method of eliminating the clergy, humanity would owe you a great debt.

  26. O J DEEN

    Hazrat Ali narrates that the Holy Prophet (swa) said: ” A time will come when nothing will remain of Islam except its Name, and nothing will remain of the Quran except its Script. Mosques will be full of woreshippers but as far as righteousness is concerned they will be emty. Their Ulemas (religious scholars) will be the worst creatures under the Sky. Evil will plot from them and to them it will return.” refrence al-Baihaqi as quoted in al-Mishkat Kitab-ul ‘Ilm, chapter 3, p. 38 and Kanzul ‘Ummal, chapter 6, p. 43

    Surely, all believers are brothers. So make peace between your brothers, and fear ALLAH that mercy may be shown to you (49:11)

    Abdullah ibn Mas’ud relates that the Holy Prophet (sa) said: Truth guides to virtue and virtue guides to Paradise. A person persists in telling the truth till in the sight of Allah he is named Truthful. Lying leads to vice and vice leads to the Fire; and a person goes on lying till in the sight of Allah he is named a liar (Bokhari and Muslim).

  27. Bin Ismail

    @fightingchance71 (November 8, 2010 at 5:57 am)

    Within the confines of any religious community or denomination, there are matters that need to be organized. This obviously requires organization. If being a member of the clergy is an irreversible pre-condition for serving as an organizer or part of the management of that community, then most surely, the seeds of priesthood have been sown. But if, for the purpose of managing the affairs of a religious community, this pre-condition does not exist, then there is greater hope that such a community would remain immune to the corrosive potentials of a clergy.

    People need to study religion themselves to release themselves from the bondage of the clergy-dependence. This includes the studying of scriptures directly as well as acquiring the knowledge and skills needed for conducting the various religious rituals. Thus rituals too, should not be clergy-dependent.

    People also need to be told repeatedly that the path to God does not go through the courtyard of the priest and true spirituality is not clergy-dependent.

    Above all, all forms of clergy should be kept away from politics. You may have a religious-minded politician, but he should not be there as a representative of a certain denomination. Similarly, political parties with a religious agenda should not have access to attainment of political power.

  28. Nasir

    @ Sardar Khan – you need to bitch slapped

  29. Nasir

    correction @ Sardar Khan – you need to be bitch slapped

  30. fightingchance71

    @Bin Ismail,
    An ideal prescription, euphoric in concept, a revolutionary step, we need a leader of such a magnitude, I dare not say ‘Messiah’, otherwise the concept might be shot down prematurely. Yes it would be great to achieve such a state of individuality and wind down the group rhetoric and religious extremism.

  31. O J DEEN

    Don’t you feel that the world today needs the divine guidance more than ever before?
    Is it not the time when servants of God are being drawn away from God, by the glamour of material world, more than ever before?
    If your conscience replies in the affirmative then please give due importance to the call of one who claimed to be sent by Allah (God) in order to re-establish the real and certain contact and relation of humans with Him.

  32. T.S. Bokhari

    @Bin Ismael

    “I believe that the higher levels of certitude regarding God cannot be achieved by human endeavour alone. It is achieved only when God Himself reveals Himself to man’s spiritual senses, of His own grace.”

    How true, but the problem is this truth is also revealed when one goes through that experience personally. The Quran is saying the same thing in verse 14 of Sura 49:

    “The Arabs say: We believe. Say you believe not, but rather say “We submit,” (@Bin Ismael

    “I believe that the higher levels of certitude regarding God cannot be achieved by human endeavour alone. It is achieved only when God Himself reveals Himself to man’s spiritual senses, of His own grace.”

    How true, but the problem is this truth is also revealed when one goes through that experience personally. The Quran is saying the same thing in verse 14 of Sura 49:

    “The Arabs say: We believe. Say you believe not, but rather say “We submit,” (Ham musalman huey) for the faith hath not yet entered in your hearts.”

    How truthful!

    So the people who call them Muslims are not believers but only political submitters as they are not spiritually inspired by direct experience of God.

    ) for the faith hath not yet entered in your hearts.”

    How truthful!

    So the people who call them Muslims are not believers but only political submitters as they are not spiritually inspired by direct experience of God.

  33. T.S. Bokhari

    Sorry my previous post got ‘gadmad’ in my effort to insert Urdu therein. So it may be treated as superseded by the following:

    @Bin Ismael

    “I believe that the higher levels of certitude regarding God cannot be achieved by human endeavour alone. It is achieved only when God Himself reveals Himself to man’s spiritual senses, of His own grace.”

    How true, but the problem is this truth is also revealed when one goes through that experience personally. The Quran is saying the same thing in verse 14 of Sura 49:

    “The Arabs say: We believe. Say you believe not, but rather say “We submit,”

    How truthful!

    So the people who call them Muslims are not believers but only political submitters as they are not spiritually inspired by direct experience of God.

  34. Humanity

    @ T.S. Bukhari

    Me think you mean “gudmud”🙂🙂

  35. Kaalket

    Let me ask , does the individual experience of “God” has to correspond to what Prophet Muhamad explained or Quran dictate? If not then will the the validity of experience be be denied?

  36. Bin Ismail

    @T.S. Bokhari (November 12, 2010 at 5:57 am)

    Don’t worry about the “gadmad” or the phonetically more correct “gudmud” as suggested by Humanity.

    Now let’s examine the verse you’ve quoted. God says to the Holy Prophet, in relation to the latter converts from among the Arabs:

    “..The Arabs say ‘we believe’. Say, “you believe not, but rather say only ‘we submit’. Belief has not even entered your hearts..” [Quran 49:14]

    The Quranic term for “we believe” is “aamannaa” and the term for “we submit” is “aslamnaa”. In my opinion, the latter term “aslamnaa”, translated commonly as “we submit” also means “we accept Islam”. The message here is that there is a difference between “attaining the true state of Belief” and merely proclaiming “we accept Islam”. What is interesting is the fact that inspite of testifying that faith/belief has not even entered their hearts, God does not deprive them of the right to call themselves Muslim.

    Regards.

  37. amar

    The problem is surely with the word “submit”. If submission becomes a criterion then some clever persons will misuse their positions to impose themselves upon others in the name of this same god who demands (demanded) submission.

  38. Midfield Dynamo

    Submission to God/a concept inside your brain, is what makes us strong within ourselves and we are able to shun all other impositions.

    If we submit an exploiter then we have not submitted to God…..and you don’t believe in ‘there is one God and no God but He’.

    Fightingchance71.wordpress.com

  39. amar

    To midfield

    God himself is confused. This is especially true of the islamic god. Hence your solution will only lead to more chaos. If god is a concept in your brain or in some book then we have so many gods.

  40. Hameed

    Ahmadi made member of House of Lords;
    obv.org.uk/news-blogs/new-bme-peers-baroness-oona-king

  41. T.S. Bokhari

    @Humanity
    (November 12, 2010 at 5.57 am)
    Me think you mean “gudmud”:)
    :)”

    Me also think you mean ‘gad mad’ in standard Roman Urdu where ‘a’ works as ‘u’ in ‘bud’.

    Here I copy it from Urdu-Roman-English dictionary;
    ‘Muddle’, in English; ‘Gad Mad’, in Roman-Urdu and in Urdu, گڈ مڈ.

    Thanks for showing so much interest in my post!

  42. T.S. Bokhari

    @amar
    (November 12, 2010 at 8:35 pm)

    “God himself is confused.”

    So had been said by Satan (The truthful) when he was expelled from the paradise and had accused God for confusing him also (This was when God asked all angels to bow before Adam contravening His own standing order prohibiting bowing before any thing other than Himself).