Brilliant PTH editor Raza Rumi and contributor AK Chishti demolish Fareed Paracha of Jamaat e Islami

By Yasser Latif Hamdani



Filed under Pakistan

38 responses to “Brilliant PTH editor Raza Rumi and contributor AK Chishti demolish Fareed Paracha of Jamaat e Islami

  1. Talha

    I would prefer physical demolition becuase these guys would not understand any other other way.

  2. Suvrat

    nice discussion, but also post the next episode

  3. ابو سعد

    Pls post all the episode. And See Three Plus host win against lone Farid Paracha. I give you challange to discuss this issue with me.

  4. androidguy

    the anchor sucks

  5. YLH

    saad mian,

    Fareed Paracha got his ass kicked by them. He couldn’t make sense. He was crying at the end. And he is a liar.

  6. Humanity

    @Talha “I would prefer physical demolition because these guys would not understand any other other way.”

    No suggestion of violence please! One must practice what one preaches. The bigots are eventually consumed by their own hatred. Just watch patiently and see them get unraveled at the seams. In the meanwhile, try to promote peace and compassion through acts of kindness. Regards.

    “No act of kindness, no matter how small, is ever wasted.” — Aesop
    The Lion and the Mouse
    Greek slave & fable author (620 BC – 560 BC)

  7. MilesToGo

    One of his Pracha’s argument was to consider only the later speech of Jinnah, in that case let’s apply the same logic to Muhammad and consider only his later verses…

  8. nasir

    excellent video – the mullah needs to back to school

  9. Taha Rizvi

    The Jamati doesn’t make sense.

  10. Humanity

    @ Taha Rizvi “The Jamati doesn’t make sense.”


  11. no-communal

    Jamiat Ulama i Hind seems different. Consider the first fatwa on Deoband website:


    Respected Mufti Saheb! Assalamu Alaikum

    Whenever I notice anybody doing something against the Shariah,…. I immediately begin despising the person…… I humbly request Hazrath to help me remedy this situation.



    Respected Brother! Assalamu Alaikum

    To despise a person upon observing him committing a sin is itself a serious crime (only the sin should be despised — never despise the person). At such a time one should consider his own sins. He should address himself thus: ” There are numerous vices in me which I am fully aware of. How absolutely despicable I have become due to these sins! “…. To despise anyone is a sin on its own — and a very serious one too. It is NOT a trivial matter. Allah Ta’ala will question me on the day of Judgement: “If my servants committed any wrong, what right did you have to despise them?” (What will I then answer?)”

    Ponder over this regularly. Insha-Allah, you will benefit from it.


    Even without knowing Islam, this makes eminent sense. World doesn’t know about such fatwas enough.

    Why did the two Jamiats in our two countries develop differently?

  12. YLH

    No communal,

    I am a little surprised by your comment. I suggest you read the Darul Itfa of Darul uloom Deoband carefully…

    You will find such genius fatwas as:

    1. Photographs are haram.

    2. Banking is haram.

    3. Friendship with non-Muslims is haram.

    4. Women at the work place are haram.

    Darul Uloom Deoband is the most bigoted seminary in the world.

    Ironically… Pakistan’s Jamiat e Ulema Islam has since 1956 has been dominated by the Mufti Mahmood faction which was till 1949 part of the Jamiat e Ulema Hind and were opposed to Pakistan to begin with. This faction produced Maulana Fazlur Rahman and Sami ul Haq. They together fathered the Taliban. They are completely and utterly loyal to the dominant Madani faction from the Deoband in India.

    Meanwhile the only Deobandi faction that is to some extent moderate in some very minor things is the Thanvi faction which had originally broken away from the Jamiat e Ulema Hind in 1943 and formed the Jamiat e Ulema Islam then. They were the ones ousted by the Mufti Mahmood faction in 1956.

    You are also confusing Jamiat with Jamaat e Islami.

    Interestingly the breakaway Islahi faction of Jamaat e Islami has produced Allama Javed Ahmed Ghamidi the most progressive and liberal Muslim scholar in the subcontinent.

    So please refrain from such odd and ridiculously simplistic comments.

    *** This Message Has Been Sent Using BlackBerry Internet Service from Mobilink ***

  13. Harbir

    Wonderful to see this debate and these personalities speak in this way. But I had the uneasy feeling that these are but irrelevant annoyances to the jamaati juggernaut. However bravo to the panelists for fighting the battle.

  14. no-communal

    Yes, I see the difference between Jamaat islami and Jamiat ulama. To avoid such confusions, I checked the Deoband website to get a feel for scriptural Islam in India. About non-Muslims it says “…the Prophet (Pbuh) has urged the help of neighbors. It is not necessary that the neighbor be a Muslim. It is enough that he is neighbor.”. The fatwas you mention are not listed there, but I am sure you know more on this matter.

    About fatwas on photograph etc., I see no particular problem as long as they are not forcibly imposed. People can believe and preach what they want.

    Deoband may be the most bigoted seminary in the world, but at least their website doesn’t show it. In fact I was struck by their emphasis on forgiveness, benevolence, etc., as true teachings of Islam. For example, consider the following fatwa also listed on the website:

    SUMMARY OF LETTER: Bismihi Ta’ala

    Respected Mufti Saheb! Assalamu Alaikum Warahmatullahi Wabarakatuhu

    The writer explained that his enemies have put him into great problems and difficulties, to the extent that they even resorted to having sihr (black magic) done upon him. He then requested some wazifa of such a nature that as soon as he begins to read it, he would see his enemies being disgraced and humiliated. …

    SUMMARY OF REPLY: Bismihi Ta’ala

    Respected Brother! Assalamu Alaikum Warahmatullahi Wabarakatuhu

    I was greatly disturbed upon hearing of your plight…. the purpose must be to obtain the pleasure of Allah Ta’ala and to be safe from the evil of one’s enemies. This has always been the way of our pious predecessors. They did not like to see their enemies being disgraced and humiliated. Rather they stopped people from trying to disgrace their enemies. Do you want to take all the revenge of the sufferings your enemies have given you in this world? It is better that you forgive them in this world. As a result in the Hereafter you will gain such great benefit in return that you cannot even imagine in this world.


    I know that the Taliban are Deobandi. But at least the current Deoband and the Taliban don’t appear a very good match.

    My knowledge is limited on this matter. So I will not enter into an argument with you. I will appreciate anything you and others may add, but as long as it is done civilly.

  15. YLH

    Give me time and I’ll show you.

    I am shocked that the “secular liberals” of India still haven’t grown up…even after Shah Bano case.

    Btw Jamaat e Islami website would have such lipservice as well.

    *** This Message Has Been Sent Using BlackBerry Internet Service from Mobilink ***

  16. Prasad

    No communal – Discussing about a seminary through some trash found on websites is stupid to say the least.

    YLH is right Dar ul uloom Deoband regularly comes out with inane stupid fatwas that become regular jokes amongst the muslim community.

    First of all this concept of dictating someone through sermons / fatwas etc itself is in bad taste (whether good or bad).

  17. no-communal


    The fatwas I quoted were in response to people asking for guidance on those matters. What’s the difference between that and a Hindu devotee asking his/her Guru for guidance?

    By inane stupid fatwas if you mean, for example, the one on Vande Mataram, I don’t see any reason why people have to sing a particular song to prove their patriotism.

    May be the website only projects a benign face. But it still is a good thing, because people in the far-flung areas may see those good lines and everyone benefits.

  18. YLH

    Well by your logic Jamaat e Islami is the finest organisation because it says nice things on its website.

    This is my problem with Indian liberals of Hindu origin.

  19. harriss khan

    my salam,

    One can easily decipher the bias in this flick by reading the tag line which says, Brilliant Raza ruma and other demolish Jamt-e-islami…… what is the yard stick to state that one demolishes other in a debate?
    Raza ruma started from Jinnah then instantly switched to 65 war where he stated about 71 incidences and then sommersaluts after aommersaults……..
    I wish sanity to prevail for these so called intellectuals!!!

  20. YLH

    harris mian…

    Shove your greetings where these belong.

    Raza Rumi kicked Fareeed Paracha’s ass… anyone can see that.

    Fareed Paracha is a liar and a crook… who doesn’t even know that by October 1948 Jinnah was already dead.

  21. Suvrat

    @No Communal
    There is a large tome “The World of Fatwas” -Rupa Publishers, written by Arun Shorie on Fatwas issued by leading seminaries in India. Large number of stupid fatwas mentioned by YLH are listed in detail there.

  22. This is my problem with Indian liberals of Hindu origin.


  23. Talha

    Maulana Usman Deoband once said that if any other sect or religion do not beleive in their doctrine then the others should be eradicated.

    That is if the Deobandis were the rulers.

  24. Tilsim

    There is good and bad in most things (except where it is beyond the pale such as the Taliban/Al Qaeda etc). I would not describe the Deoband seminary as beyond the pale (even though I serious disagree with their philosophy and the damaging effect this has had on Pakistan and Indian Muslims). We should praise the good and point out the bad and let people judge for themselves. Painting a wholly black picture of an adversary just opens up a lacuna for detractors to undermine legitimate argument. The case against Deoband (for a liberal) is very substantial.

  25. no-communal


    Arun Shouri has an agenda. Plus stupid fatwas (on jeans, cameras…) don’t matter any more.

    I am not defending Darul Uloom Deoband on their dogmatic practices. I dislike these practices as much as anyone else.

    @ others

    It may be that the extremist Deobandi seminaries elsewhere, the ones creating the terrorists, are not ideologically connected to the original one any more. The Deobandi mullah interviewed below certainly claims so.

    Here is an abridged version of a report and interview conducted by

    Darul Uloom Deoband: The Indian Source of the Taliban:

    Nov. 2008

    The Taliban learned their interpretation of Islam while studying at Deobandi seminaries in Pakistan. Mullah Omar, for example, the leader of the Taliban, attended the Deobandi Darul Uloom Haqqania madrassa in Akora Khattak, in Peshawar, Pakistan. So many Taliban leaders were educated at this same school that its head cleric, Maulana Sami ul-Haq, has been called the father of the Taliban.

    Another of the school’s alumni is Pakistani Taliban leader, Jalaluddin Haqqani. He was the Minister of Tribal Affairs under the Taliban. Today, he and his sons use a network of Deobandi madrassas, the Dar Uloom schools in Waziristan, to indoctrinate, recruit, and train jihadists that they deploy in the insurgency in Afghanistan. Deobandi-trained armies under Haqqani have taken credit for bombing the five-star Serena hotel in Kabul last winter, and are suspected in the Indian embassy bombings that took place in Kabul this summer. The U.S. military has identified one of Haqqani’s sons, Siraj, as no less than the leading threat to security in eastern Afghanistan. Many analysts believe he is the heir apparent to Al Qaeda leader Osama bin Laden.

    Researchers from Kabul Center and the Indian Institute for Defence Studies and Analyses visited the headquarters of the Deobandi movement in the city of Deoband, about 150 kilometers northeast of New Delhi, in mid-November.

    History of the Deobandi movement

    The school was established in 1866, during the early period of India’s long struggle for independence from British colonial rule. The school’s founder, Maulana Mohammad Qasim Nanautvi, set up the center to establish a place where Muslims could retreat in order to escape what he believed was the corrupting encroachment of Western civilization. He wanted the school to become a place where Muslims could return to what he believed was the pure Islam, the Islam that was practiced by the Prophet and his companions.

    The founder must have touched on a deep longing, as the school quickly emerged as one of the most important centers of Islamic learning in the British Indian Empire.

    The Deobandi scholars opposed the Jinnah plan because in their minds, there was nothing Islamic about a secular Muslim state. Maulana Husain Ahmad Madani, then head of the Deobandi movement, believed that the Islamic alternative was to have all Indians endeavor together to create a democratic state Indians of every faith. (Abdul Sattar Ghazali, Islamic Pakistan: IIlusions & Reality).

    Jinnah would prevail. And so in 1947, when the subcontinent was divided, the Deobandis, elected not to move to the new state of Pakistan and instead they stayed in their traditional home, which was now in the new state of India.

    Soon the two new states were on hostile terms, over a dispute over which state should control the Himalayan state of Kashmir. What this meant to the Deobandis was that now followers of the movement in Pakistan had to create their own centers of learning – they no longer had the same access to the center in Deoband.

    Now new leaders had additional space in which to grow without having to threaten the center’s power.

    Deobandi madrassas proliferated in the new environment and today, the force of the movement can be seen in the Deobandi madrassas that can be found, not just in India and Pakistan, but also in countries as far away as Europe and North American.

    Moreover, many of the Deobandi centers are characterized by the media as “hard-line.” (The Times, Sep. 7, 2007). This is because like the Taliban, many of the Deobandi madrassas have been linked to extremism.

    Kabul Center researchers wanted to find out what the Darul Uloom Deobandi leaders thought about the school’s various connections to terrorism and so they set out from Delhi in November.

    Adil Siddiqi, the public relations officer, was made available to the researchers.

    A native of Deoband, Mr. Siddiqi, never attended the madrassa himself though, curiously, his father taught at the school.

    He explained that he was educated in the secular system for “economic reasons” – the same reasons he chose to educate his own children – two boys and two girls – in the same state-run secular system as opposed to the Deobandi madrassa.

    Like his father, he went on to say that he never imposed any religious views on his children. Though he identifies himself as a Deobandi, he never memorized the Koran and any religious education he has is “self-taught.”

    In addition, he admitted that his lifestyle is not as pure as the Deobandis who stay at the center. While at the center all forms of entertainment are banned as they are considered to be corrupting. Mr. Siddiqi confessed to watching television at home – “the news,” he said, smiling. Here are excerpts from the researchers’ conversation with Mr. Siddiqi.

    Muslims in India

    Kabul Direct: How many Muslims are there in India?

    Adil Siddiqi: Around 200 million, spread throughout the country.

    Kabul Direct: What explains their economic and educational backwardness?

    Adil Siddiqi: Muslims in India were originally drawn from the lower castes. They were the people who were exploited by the Brahmins. This is why they converted to Islam. They responded to Islam’s message of equality. Still, they remain weak, economically and educationally.

    Kabul Direct: What about the political participation of Muslims in Indian government?

    Adil Siddiqi: Indian Muslims take part in all political spheres. But again, because of their weakness in the economic and educational spheres, their political progress is less than it should be.

    The Curriculum

    Kabul Direct: As the oldest Deoband seminary around the world, how many students do you have?

    Adil Siddiqi: Today we have some 3,500 students. Every year about 800 students graduate from our program. Not one of our students is unemployed or jobless. Not one of them is involved in any kind of anti-social activity. Our students go on to leave peaceful lives, to spread the message of Islam as a religion of peace throughout the world.

    Kabul Direct: what about your educational programs?

    Adil Siddiqi: The program is a twelve-year program. The elementary education is a five- year program. Then there is a seven-year advanced program.

    Kabul Direct: What subjects are taught?

    Adil Siddiqi: We teach philosophy, literature, logic, Islamic jurisprudence and other subjects too. After completing our full program, a student who wants to go further can specialize and

    continue his studies in the seminary.

    Kabul Direct: What about the journalism and computer courses you offer. Are all students obliged to take these courses?

    Adil Siddiqi: Only students who want to pursue these courses.

    Kabul Direct: Are your students only from India or from around the world as well?

    Adil Siddiqi: The majority is Indian, but we have students from abroad as well. For example, we have students from England and so on.


    Students at the school are not expected to pay tuition, and the researchers were curious as to where the money came from.

    Kabul Direct: How is the school funded?

    Adil Siddiqi: The school’s funds come from Muslims, from charities and so on. Do not forget that this is the age of globalization. We have many followers from around the world who support our institution.

    Kabul Direct: What is your annual budget?

    Adil Siddiqi: [Around $3 million U.S.].

    Kabul Direct: Do you publish your financial statements?

    Adil Siddiqi: Yes, for sure. Our expenditures and income is regularly is checked by the Indian government. Government officials monitor our finances.

    Clash with the West

    Kabul Direct: As every scholar and citizen is aware, the idea that there is a clash occurring between Islam and the West is gaining ground. Some have called for a dialogue – between Islam as a religion and the West as a geography. Is this how to address this rising issue?

    Adil Siddiqi: Well, a conspiracy started under the Bush strategy and administration. Now the Bush era is over. With the newly-elected president in the United States, Mr. Obama, it is hoped, will change the policies of his country towards the Islamic world, and thereby change the situation in the world

    Kabul Direct: According to your institution, should such a dialogue happen?

    Adil Siddiqi: Dialogue is always welcomed. But it should be based on sincerity.

    Kabul Direct: Should the dialogue be between the West and Islam or between the holy religions – between Islam and Christianity, for example, or between Islam and Judaism?

    Adil Siddiqi: Dialogue must happen. But it should not be ambiguous or with reservation.

    On Al Qaeda’s view of Islam

    Kabul Direct: The Bush policies notwithstanding, don’t you think it has been Bin Laden and his harsh and inhuman interpretation of Islam that has most damaged Islam’s image in the world?

    Adil Siddiqi: Well, it is claimed that Osama Bin Laden was the mastermind behind the 9/11 attacks. But where is the evidence? Who has proved this claim that Osama has planned the attacks? This has never been proved.

    Kabul Direct: But what about his interpretation of Islam? Do you think he is right in his interpretation of our religion?

    Adil Siddiqi: Well, I have to mention one major point. Osama and his organization have misused the word of Jihad, they have applied it in the wrong sense. We oppose what he describes as jihad. We direct our efforts to interpret Jihad according to the present situation, the time and context.

    Kabul Direct: So what is [Darul Uloom Deoband’s] interpretation of Jihad?

    Adil Siddiqi: Jihad means efforts to make our lives peaceful. This is the true message of Islam throughout the world. This is the real meaning of Jihad. We have to promote Islam. I don’t think it is Jihad to kill, oppress, and attack people.

    The other major usage of Jihad is that Muslims can defend themselves. In Islam and in Jihad, we can defend ourselves from the attacks of the enemy. All the rights of self-defense are declared in Islam. Only for self-defense are we allowed to fight. Otherwise we are not allowed to wage war.

    Kabul Direct: What about suicide attacks in Afghanistan? Are suicide attacks legitimate? Are they right to conduct suicide attacks?

    Adil Siddiqi: Well, this is Afghanistan’s matter. We can’t interfere in the affairs of Afghanistan or the affairs of other countries.

    Kabul Direct: But in Pakistan, madrassas who are using the name Deoband are involved in attacks and the killing of innocents. As the largest Islamic Deoband seminary in the world, have you ever sent a message to tell them that what they are doing is not allowed in Deoband?

    Adil Siddiqi: We have always given the message that activities – murder, the killing of innocents- is not Islamic, that such actions are anti-Islam and against our interpretation of Islam.

    In fact, it was only in February of this year that Darul Uloom Deoband issued its first blanket condemnation of terrorism. In the decree, the clerics stated that “Islam is a religion of mercy for all humanity. Islam sternly condemns all kinds of oppression, violence and terrorism.” (AFP, Feb. 25, 2008)

    Deobandi efforts to disassociate Islam from terrorism do seem to be accelerating of late. A few days before the researchers arrived in Deoband, some 4,000 senior clerics met in Hyderabad and endorsed the second Deobandi fatwa against terrorism that was issued in May. The May fatwa read: “Islam is in no way connected with terrorism and all those who are responsible for terrorist acts leading to loss of life and property of innocent people are not Muslims.” The Hindu, Nov. 9, 2008.)

    Maulana Mahmood Madani, general- secretary of Jamiat Ulama-i Hind, a political party founded by Darul Uloom Deoband clerics, said the next step was to gather clerics from across the entire sub- continent, including Pakistan and Afghanistan and have them endorse the anti-terrorism decree as well. (Radio Free Europe, Nov. 18, 2008).

    Perhaps this is why in mid-October, a group of radical clerics in Pakistan came out with their own fatwa repudiating suicide and other “senseless” jihadist attacks in Pakistan. The fatwa’s endorsers included the head of the banned Deobandi-inspired Sipah-e Sahaba, a group that is notorious for its brutal attacks against Shia Muslims. (BBC Monitoring South Asia, October 16, 2008).

    Afghans were disappointed to note the ruling was silent on such “senseless” attacks inside Afghanistan. But many Afghans were cautiously optimistic at least this was some indication the Deobandis had taken stock of what their followers have done to the image of Islam.

    The Afghan Insurgency

    Kabul Direct: [The Taliban] say they are fighting Jihad [in Afghanistan] with their suicide attacks and murders. They say they are doing these things under the banner of Islam, in accordance with the Hanafi and the Deobandi schools to Afghan citizens. But is what they are doing in Afghanistan, to an Islamic nation with a constitution that states that Islam is the basis of its law, with a government that was elected by Muslim people, really in accordance with the teachings of Deobandism?

    Adil Siddiqi: Well what the Taliban claims that is Deobanism dates back to fifty years ago. But since that time, we have brought about many changes to Deoband. Today our approach to any case is based on the current situation and present era. So Deoband cannot be held responsible for the Taliban’s mind set.

    Kabul Direct: So what do you say when innocent people are killed under the name of Islam?

    Adil Siddiqi: Islam has never been for the killing innocent people. Islam is a religion of peace. We are not even allowed to tease our neighbor, who might be from any religion.

    Kabul Direct: Has the Darul Uloom done anything to dissociate itself from the Darul Uloom madrassas in Pakistan – the ones that are being used by the insurgents?

    Adil Siddiqi: We have no links with those seminaries in Pakistan. The Daral Uloom Deoband was opposed to the partition of India from the very beginning. Since Partition in 1947 we have never been in touch with the seminaries that were established there, the seminaries who claim to be following the Deobandi school of thought.

    Kabul Direct: But it was reported that Mawlana Fazal Rahman, [the leader of the Pakistan’s hard-line Jamiat Ulema-e Islam] visited your institution recently. Did this not indicate that you have links to one of the leading extremist organizations in Pakistan?

    Adil Siddiqi: When he visited India, he did visit the Darul Uloom Deoband, yes. There were no talks of politics, however. That is it.

    Kabul Direct: If your relations with the Pakistani seminaries ended in 1947 with the partition of India, why did Mawlana Fazal visit your institution then?

    Adil Siddiqi: Before the Partition, the seminaries in what are today’s Pakistan, Afghanistan, India and Bangladesh were in close touch. There was no difference between them. They were all united during that time. They had talks in those days, dialogues. This is the only reason leading scholars from Pakistan – like Mawlana Fazul Rahman – visit India’s Darul Deoband today.

  26. Humanity

    What does pale mean?
    Answer from

    “The pale is the limits of a consecrated graveyard. Being beyond the pale means that the body was buried outside of the formal area of the graveyard.

    Years ago, one had to be approved by religious authorities to be buried in a consecrated graveyard. This was very important to people, and being buried beyond the pale (outside the graveyard) was the worst thing that could ever happen to them.

    It used to be common to bury blacks, homosexuals, gypsies, criminals, and others that were not accepted by good society beyond the pale.

    People that were excommunicated were also buried beyond the pale. This gave the priests great power, in that they could deliver a sentence worse than death by excommunicating someone they did not like.”

    So the whole idea of a pale was conceived for worldly power, which makes it evil at the very core. The idea is sustained by the self preserving peddlers of faith for controlling the spiritually dead herds. It has been used by to oppress since the dawn of time by all belief systems.

    No matter which way one looks at it, twists and tweaks it, faith boils down to a matter between God and an individual. It is Allah’s boundless mercy to have granted free will to mankind. Its is Allah’s infinite wisdom to keep the final judgment in His hands.

    For all practical and human purposes, who ever proclaims to be a Muslims is Muslim. Who ever proclaims not to be a Muslim is not a Muslim. The Holy Prophet (SAW) advised a consensus be done in Medina based on this principle. It is sacrilege to allow a mullah to override the guidance of the messenger of Allah.

    Only the minds darkened with ignorance and fossilized with hatred are unable to see the simple logic. They can fight for their grave sites within or beyond the pale. The sane minds with a truly free rather disengage themselves from the shenanigans of a pale, anyhow. That is how one lives free and dies free, accountable only to the one and only Master of the day of judgement.

    “I thank whatever gods may be
    For my unconquerable soul.
    It matters not how strait the gate,
    How charged with punishments the scroll,
    I am the master of my fate:
    I am the captain of my soul.”
    — Invictus by William Ernest Henley

  27. Humanity

    @non Communal
    “Adil Siddiqi, the public relations officer, was made available to the researchers.
    A native of Deoband, Mr. Siddiqi, never attended the madrassa himself though, curiously, his father taught at the school.
    He explained that he was educated in the secular system for “economic reasons” – the same reasons he chose to educate his own children – two boys and two girls – in the same state-run secular system as opposed to the Deobandi madrassa.”

    So Mr. Siddiqui sees the madrassa as unfit for education for himself and his offspring. And yet he sees no issue by putting 3,500 children through that a non-productive system of education. Why? Do the madrassa children not have economical needs?

    These madrassas are nothing but hypocritical evil business to peddle ignorance and hatred for “economic reasons”. These people are nothing but devils in the garb of preachers and leaders.

    “Kabul Direct: How many Muslims are there in India?
    Adil Siddiqi: Around 200 million, spread throughout the country.

    Kabul Direct: What explains their economic and educational backwardness?
    Adil Siddiqi: Muslims in India were originally drawn from the lower castes. They were the people who were exploited by the Brahmins. This is why they converted to Islam. They responded to Islam’s message of equality. Still, they remain weak, economically and educationally. ”

    The lower castes were exploited by the Brahmins so they converted to Islam to regain some human dignity. And now the ‘ulema’ are exploiting the poor asses in the name of Islam. Theses bai-ghairat, bai-sharm ‘ulema’ are indeed the lowest of the low.

    While the rest of the world took advantage of the technological advances over the past couple of centuries and marched towards enlightenment, the Muslims chose the suffocating embrace of orthodoxy and ignorance. None other than the ignorant and arrogant mullah and their mindless followers are responsible for the economic and educational backwardness.

    These indeed are the people the Holy Prophet (SAW) referred to when he foretold that the ‘ulema’ will be the worst creatures under the heavens.

  28. Tilsim

    @ Humanity

    I appreciated your comment and explanation of beyond the pale. I did n’t know of the origin of this expression and I understand it better now.

    Here is a poem by Hafiz. I think you will enjoy it.

    A Golden Compass

    Forget every idea of right and wrong
    Any classroom ever taught you

    An empty heart, a tormented mind,
    Unkindness, jealousy and fear

    Are always the testimony
    You have been completely fooled!

    Turn your back on those
    Who would imprison your wondrous spirit
    With deceit and lies.

    Come, join the honest company
    Of the King’s beggars –
    Those gamblers, scoundrels and divine clowns
    And those astonishing fair courtesans
    Who need Divine Love every night.

    Come, join the courageous
    Who have no choice
    But to bet their entire world
    That indeed,
    Indeed, God is Real.

    I will lead you into the Circle
    Of the Beloved’s cunning thieves,
    Those playful royal rogues –
    The ones you can trust for true guidance –
    Who can aid you
    In this Blessed Calamity of life.

    Look at the Perfect One
    At the Circle’s Center:

    He Spins and Whirls like a Golden Compass,
    Beyond all that is Rational,

  29. no-communal

    @ Humanity

    I completely agree with you. I was making a slightly different point though, with regard to jihad, terrorism, etc..

  30. Humanity

    @ Tilsim, Thanks for sharing the divinely poem. It so beautifully says it all. Much appreciated!

    @ no-communal
    “I completely agree with you. I was making a slightly different point though, with regard to jihad, terrorism, etc..”

    Please keep in mind that actions speak louder than words. Once a hypocrite, always a hypocrite (unless s/he mends the ways. There is no such thing as half-evil. It is important to expose the juhula masquerading as ulema-e_hind, jamaat-e-Islami whatever. They are disingenuous people , dispensing ignorance and bigotry. One should pray for their guidance and salvation. May Allah help them out of their misery and forgive their punishment of being the agents of evil.

    To learn about jihad, terrorism and other finer mysteries of life and what ‘true islam’ is all about, the poem by Hafiz that Tilsim has posted is an excellent read. Hafiz’s message is divinely and thus appeals to the mind and soul. In a nutshell, God dispenses love and mercy. God likes that His creation act likewise. A God of love and mercy can not authorize and approve murder and butchery. An ‘aalim’ is not required to teach us these basic principles of civil behavior. It is common sense.

    The real jihad, called afzal jihad, is against one’s own self. Arrogance and hatred must be overcome and instead compassion, kindness, and forgiveness should be infused into the heart. These are goals that are loftier than killing others, conquering land, and becoming powerful only to continue the cycle of sorrow and oppression.

    The rewards of jihad against self are immeasurable and ever lasting both in this world and the hereafter. The worthy effort promises an excellent return-on investment as proved through the outcome of the struggles of divinely sages and sufis. Lives are truly changed for good through subduing one’s own self.

    With the self conquered, which is an arduous task, a human rises to the pedestal of nafs-e-mutmainnah, which means a soul at peace. The beauty of humanity starts to unravel and becomes obvious. The differences of race, gender, religion, nationality etc simply melt away, as humility settles in. One starts to appreciate the boundlessness of God’s love. Thus, one find ‘true submission’ right in the heart.

    How one worships and relates to his/her Creator is an individual’s private matter and must be undertaken as one sees fit without the fear of any human. What is not private business and matters very much to others is how one treats the fellow beings. The flowery sermons and lip service are not the measure of respect for human rights. The proof is in the real tangible actions that either dispense misery and mayhem through discrimination and oppression or disperse benevolence and compassion through justice and freedom. This is the litmus test of one’s faith, one’s understanding of Islam, and the validity of one’s belief system.

    I draw inspiration from my late mother for her way of life was true love for God through love for humanity. I thank God for her. May Allah forgive her and be pleased with her. She would always say to her children ”apne gerebaan me jhaanko doosare ka muhaasaba karne se pehle” (Look at your own weaknesses before you judge others). Among her favorite verses are the following verses:

    “na thi haal ki jab hamen apni khabar,
    rahe dekhte auron ke aib-o hunar.

    pari apni bura’ion pe jo nazar,
    to nigah me koyi bura na raha.”
    — Bahadar Shah Zafar

  31. Bin Ismail

    @Humanity (October 28, 2010 at 12:24 am)

    Well said. Reminds me of these lines of Faiz:

    “tumhi kaho rind-o mohtasib mein hai aaj shab kaun farq aisa
    yeh aa ke baitthay hein maikadey mein wo utth ke aa’ey hein maikadey say”

    [pray tell me what distinguishes the drunkard from the priest tonight
    one arrives in the tavern, while the other has just arrived from a tavern]


  32. Bilal Ahmad

    Mr. Paracha was telling lie when he said that JI never opposed Pakistan. He says that the people who called Mr. Jinnah as Kafir-e-Azam and called Pakistan as NaPakistan were not from JI. I am amazed to see how confidently he rejected a historical fact. Following is text from Report of Court of Inquiry of 1954 (known as Munir Kayani report), on page number 243 it says
    “The Jama’at was, therefore, professedly opposed to the Muslim League’s conception of Pakistan, and since the establishment of Pakistan, which it described as Na Pakistan, has been opposed to the present system of Government and those who are running it. In none of the writings of the Jama’at produced before us there is to be found the remotest reference in support of the demand for Pakistan, and. on the contrary, these writings which contain several possible
    hypotheses, are all opposed to the form in which Pakistan came into being and at present

  33. Humanity

    @ Bin Ismail

    Mirza Ghalib on hypocrisy ..

    “khuda ke waaste parda nakaab-e se uthaa zaalim
    kaheen aisa na ho yaan bhee wohee kaafir sanam nikle

    kahaan maikhaane ka darwaaza ‘ghalib’ aur kahaan waaiz
    par itana jaante hain kal wo jaata tha ke ham nikle”

    And acknowledging human frailties ..

    “Yeh Masail-e-Tasawwuf..Yeh tera bayaan Ghalib,
    Tujhe hum wali samajhte, jo na baadakhwaar hota”

    Bai-shuk 🙂

  34. Bin Ismail

    @Bilal Ahmad (October 29, 2010 at 9:09 pm)

    Agreed. Distortion of history seems to be the name of the game. This is precisely what Raza Rumi was arguing, that there are clear fabrications in the text books Pakistani children are made to read today.

    @Humanity (October 30, 2010 at 12:15 am)

    Waah! Issi liyay kehtay hain ke Ghalib ghalib hai.

  35. YLH

    Yeah ok. Good for you.


    In all this debate while I am utterly (and proactively) against mullah and moolah (and endorse the views of RR in that regard) as well as mediocrity and mutualization; I do think that this bloke (YLH), residue of some nondescript New Jersey university – – forming the boondocks of the pegaDOGic academia – – better start minding his libellous and scurrilous/obscene (=Outrageous + often seminally filthy) language which only serves various vested (and waisted/ wasted) sycophancy-agenda.

    ‘Marrowing’ draconic ‘gupp’ about (and line on…) Libel and concerning Restructuring yet commiting these (gun and blame squarely relegated upon the shoulder of PTH). Will someone put his Blackbury on a leash before he has born-again all terminally “TaTa”-ed beyond redemption; to wit fizzled out not phoenixed ought?

  37. YLH

    Ah Iqball Geoffrey the Mahatma Khud is back.