Baba Farid’s shrine and the barbarians within us

This morning arrived with the shocking news of the recent barbarity played out in Pakpattan (formerly known as Ajodhan) when two criminals left bombs outside the shrine of Baba Farid. Eight innocent people, returning from morning prayer, lost their lives and about 2o were injured.

Baba Fariduddin Ganje Shakar’s shrine was the latest victim of terrorism. We have now entered into a decisive phase of the ongoing battle. What is the purpose of attacking a shrine other than the fact that it defines the historical reality of a peaceful and secular Punjab. Baba Farid is revered by Muslims, Sikhs and Hindus of the subcontinent. He is the leading light of Chishti school of Sufism in Indo-Pak subcontinent. Other than his status as a mystic, Baba Farid is the pioneer of modern Punjabi language as it was innovated and refined in the 12th century. The Punjabis across the world consider him as a cultural and spiritual master.

We condemn this brutal attack, this sheer cowardice and barbarity. It is time to fight against this menace of sectarianism and scaring the people of Pakistan. We have lunatics – now dangerous criminals – who are hellbent to destroy our centuries’ old culture.

To top it all, the security cameras were dysfunctional, there was no intelligence report and this historical shrine was not protected. What else could the terrorists ask for?

I am reproducing sections of an article from Manzur Ejaz which narrates the contribution of Baba Farid to the Punjabi language and how times were a commentary on the changing social contours of the Punjab.

Before northern invasions the priestly classes and the rulers used Sanskrit as spoken and written language while the common folks used Apabhasha which means a corrupted language. Some scholars hold that it was derived from Prakrit. However, a few linguists claim that in Punjab neither Prakrit nor Apabhasha was in use. The language in Punjab was on the periphery of both and was close to Baba Farid’s language written in 12th century which means it was Punjabi as such. Incidentally, Baba Farid has rarely borrowed a word or term from foreign languages like Persian and Arabic: his entire poetic discourse is purely in indigenous language of the people of the Punjab.

Baba Farid is considered the forefather of Punjabi language. As a matter of fact he can be honored as the first poet who wrote in Punjabi people’s language for the first time in centuries. What we have from the previous periods is written in Sanskrit which was the language of the elite. Of course the great Sanskrit writer like Panini created everlasting pieces of literature in Punjab but we don’t find anything written in people’s language. Most probably, it must have been lost because other than Sanskrit manuscripts there was no institution or mechanism to preserve people’s literature. Therefore, Baba Farid’s thought provoking poetry is the first written document which is handed down to us with courtesy of Sikh Gurus’ commitment to preserve Punjabi classics.

Baba Farid’s poetry has many philosophical dimensions but we will limit ourselves to a few couplets which portray the conditions of people in Punjab at that time. Baba Farid was born in Punjab (Khotowal near Multan) and after his education and rigorous training he left the comfortable life of Delhi after he was made the head of powerful Chishtia sect and settled back in Punjab. He chose Pakpattan (then Ajodhan) where he had to fight with ruler and Qazi of the city. Baba Farid had to face socio-economic and ideological difficulties like a common man at the hands of the new alien rulers and their religious establishment.

In one of his couplet he characterizes the relationship between the peasants and the plundering rulers:

Farida, eeh vis gandlan dhrian khand liwaR

Ik rahidey reh gaey ik radhi gaey ujaR

(O Farid, the poisonous stems are sugar coated. Some tilled the land and the others plundered)

In the first line of the couplet the stems of growing plant are depicted to be wrapped up in sugar. To the tiller the plants of his crop look like sugar because they will bring him sweetness of life. But he is unaware that these plants will become poison because his oppressors will take them and gain strength from his (tiller’s) produce and to oppress him more. In other words the tiller is producing for his death and not for life.

In the second line Farid overtly pronounce what was implicit in the first line by saying that some continue plough and tilling while others keep on plundering. On should note that Farid’s words describe the relationship between tillers and oppressor as an ongoing process in continuum for centuries.

In another couplet Baba Farid describes the nature of class society and its uneven distribution of wealth

Iknan aata aggla, iknaN nahin loon

Aggay paey sunjansan chotan khasi kaon)

(Some have abundance of flour and some don’t have even salt

The time will show who is hit more)

In this couplet the first line is a straightforward depiction of the economic disparity between the rich and poor in Punjab of that time: Some have so much that they cannot possibly consume while the others have nothing. Here flour symbolizes the material and personal freedom. The society around Farid was comprised of large population of slaves and impoverished peasants, artisans and workers. They had neither material source to sustain themselves nor to act freely.

The second line of the couplet is complex and can be understood in many ways. Of course if we go by the establishment religious doctrine it means that the Day of Judgment will tell who is punished and who is not. But, since Farid does not adhere to such a ritualistic religion the line refers to the process of history. In other words time will tell which class will prevail and which one will be destroyed. Farid has referred to destruction of one class of rulers by another. In the following couplet he portrays the temporary nature of power:

Jin loein jag mohia, sey loein main DiTh

Kajal raikh na sahndian, sey pankhii soey bith

“I have seen those eyes which mesmerized the world; they could not bear a touch of mascara but I have seen birds pouring stool on them”

An eternal sad undertone pervades Baba Farid’s poetry which more than anything else captures the melancholy of injured soul of Punjab of 12th century.


Filed under Pakistan

39 responses to “Baba Farid’s shrine and the barbarians within us

  1. Feroz Khan

    Pakistan should get used to such attacks, because there are more to come.

    Lets not mince words, because we are in the middle of a religious civil war. We are responsible for what is happening in Pakistan, because we have funded, supported, lionized, patronized and condoned the activities of the people, who are bombing us. We are reaping what we sowed when we remained silent and did not speak up, when all this was being wrought in the name of religion.

    Pakistan has to make a choice. Either there is going to Islam in Pakistan, which will judge who is a Muslim and who is not or there will be a Pakistan, where no one will be judged by their religion and religion will exist in the hearts of the people and not in the public sphere but Pakistan as a state based on religion cannot exist anymore.

    In simple words: Pakistan or Islam?

    Make up your minds my fellow Pakistanis what you want.


  2. Amaar

    @feroz khan

    ‘Pakistan or Islam?’ It should be ‘Pakistan or Mullahism?’

    Islam is as much under attack as is Pakistan.

  3. eveshern

    this is just the beginning. stop claiming tht they were terrorist. for all u know they cud have been americans intelligence?

    n if really they r general public, they wud hv been trained, lured,black mailed or forced to commit such crime.

    i happen to meet some brothers from lakki marwat, and he informed how there r diff version of taliban in afghanistan. one is of the pakistani arrmy and the other is of american who hired sikhs and hindus to keep long beard and wear even bigger turban and commit crime that wud give bad name to taliban.

  4. O J DEEN

    Very thought provoking and enlightening topic and comments. So what is the remedy? In my view August 11, 1947 address of Quaid-e-Azam Muhammad Ali Jinnah, to the members of the Pakistan Constituent Assembly, to the status of a national covenant. That it has
    ” You are free; you are free to go to your temples, you are free to go to your mosques or to any other place of worship in this State of Pakistan. You may belong to any religion or caste or creed — that has nothing to do with the business of the State… We are starting with this fundamental principle that we are all citizens and equal citizens of one State… I think we should keep that in front of us as our ideal and you will find that in due course Hindus would cease to be Hindus and Muslims would cease to be Muslims, not in the religious sense, because that is the personal faith of each individual, but in the political sense as citizens of the State.”

  5. Humanity

    ISI being the top secret service, has failed in capturing a single foreign agent to date.

    Wake up and face the reality on ground.

  6. Rehman

    Excellent article. A linguistic clarification. Punjab was a land of both the most cultured language, Sanskrit (means “well created”, samyaku – well, krit – create). And, the common man’s dialect variously known as Apabrahmsa (literally, “fallen down” to indicate that it is corrupted from Sanskrit). Apabrahmsa (or Prakrits) are not a single language, but any corruption of Sanskrit thereof. Almost by definition, Punjabi evolved from an Apabrahms language. As did every other Indo-Aryan language in the subcontinent, including Pali (language of the Buddha). Note that Buddha used an Apabrahmsa (i.e., Pali) for his teachings for the same reasons that Baba Farid did, to reach the common person.

    Again, well written piece.


  7. zainulabidin

    once again!!
    Pakistan better decide soon if they want all their shrines demolished one by one. If they decide they want to keep these historic tombs, then they must demolish every madrassa one by one. Sometimes the best defense is offence. This is the only solution to the problem. If not, then the legacy of the saints that brought islam to this part of the world will be forgotten and so will the spirituality that they taught.

  8. Gorki

    The attack on Baba Farid’s shrine coupled with the previous one on Data Durbar in Lahore saddens every Punjabi heart around the World.
    Farid was a poet of Punjab and his simple words below provide a useful insight into the syncretic culture that was taking roots in the Punjab of his time:

    “koee bolai raam raam koee khudhaae ||
    koee saevai guseeaa koee alaahi ||1||
    (Some call the Lord ‘Ram, Ram’, and some ‘Khuda’.
    Some serve Him as ‘Gusain’, others as ‘Allah’…)

    (A Baba Farid couplet that is a part of the Sikh holy scripture, The Guru Granth Sahib)

    And another couplet below, that should give pause to those who murder and maim in the name of religion:

    Farid Kaaley maindey kaprey, kaala mainda wais,
    Gunahan Bharehan main pheraan,
    Lok kahain dervish….
    (Laden with my load of misdeeds,
    I move about in the garb of black garments;
    And the people see me and call me a dervish…)


  9. Suvrat

    It is sad that Baba Farid’s shrine has been attacked. It seems that any form of moderation or empathy is looked down upon as apostasy and some people are hell bent on having “my way or highway”.

    But some people still need to be woken up from their slumber.

    “one is of the pakistani arrmy and the other is of american who hired sikhs and hindus to keep long beard and wear even bigger turban and commit crime that wud give bad name to taliban.”.

    @eveshern can you give me an estimate of how many daredevil Hindus and Sikhs are fighting to sully the honourable name of Taliban.

  10. Watty

    When such luminary icons from the past are desecrated, the pain is felt far beyond Pakistan and reaches communities spread across the vast heartland of India and beyond. It is ironic that various diverse Muslim sects continue to thrive in India while they are being systematically decimated in Pakistan. This growing barbarity of Muslims killing Muslims destroys the very premise on which Pakistan was carved out of Indian territory.

    Pakistan must think hard about its place in the region and the role it wishes to play in a world that is busily transforming itself into a global community where education, economic growth, social and cultural development are the new standards of achievement and universal acceptance. Nation states or their selfish leaders who seek to be impediments to humanity’s forward march risk being suddenly relegated to the dustbin of history.

  11. What is happening to us is no different from what happened to the ‘Buddhas’ of Bomian in Afghanistan.

    The barbarians who did that are also doing this.

    We did nothing then. We can do nothing now.

    Some will blame India, Hindus, Sikhs, USA, Jews, and then wait “haath par rakkhe haath”.

    Should we mount another Mumbai? And then wait “haath par rakkhe haath”?

    Even if we can determine what needs to be done, do we know who will do it and how?

    Our Army cannot do it. No political party can do it. Mullahs will refuse to do it. We cannot ask USA to do it. We have no leader we can turn to. Zia is dead and gone. Mush will be killed soon for money and land.

    Where do we go? Whom should we ask?

    “Paani sar se oopar janey waala hai”.

    “Jab kuchh kar saktey they, to sotey rahey”. “Jaagey to bahut dair se”.

    We will wait “haath par rakkhe haath”.

    Dustbin of history “khaali hai”!

  12. Talha

    Why this sadness and glum faces, after all you wanted it, you wanted to decide who is a Muslim and who is not. You wanted to use these ‘Mujahideen’ to wage their ‘Jihad’ against Godless Soviets.

    These ‘certified’ Muslims are a great bunch, they are your own and you made them what they are today. Now get Fu**£d by the same people who you chose and sided with.

    Here is a nice little sentence from the Justice Munir-Kiyani report that will warm your hearts.

    “If Pakistan is to develop as a democratic and progressive State, sectarian activities must be put down with firmness; otherwise Pakistan will become a medieval and reactionary State.”

    Funny isn’t it, now you are the ‘kafir’ too and the ‘Muslims’ will wage jihad on you.

    Like Iqbal said:

    Deen-e-Kafir Fikro Tadbeera Jihad
    Deen-e-Mullah Fisabillilahi Fasad.

    You reap what you sow, enjoy the fruits now.

  13. poke

    Remember Somnath or more recent one Bamiyaan Buddhas…. not a soul moved in the islamic world…….. so why this disgust now

  14. amar

    I don’t think there are any pakistanis in denial anymore. I refuse to believe that pakistanis are so idiotized. But may be I am wrong.

    How much more must happen till pakistanis say that their problems are 99% internal and not caused by any foreign power or hand?

  15. Talha

    @ Amar

    You are wrong, a good number of Pakistanis still beleive that there is foreign hand involvement in all this.

    The yahoodi’s, hindu’s and the amreki agents are always discussed by coutnless idiots around the country.

    Pakistan is a good place inhabited by bad people.

    I also think that its days are numbered before an eventual balkanization.

    We the ones who created Pakistan were shunned from the society, even then we workled hard for it but were restricted in our roles.

    The same people who opposed Pakistan are r@ping it today.

  16. amar

    Pakistan being a monolithic, mono-ideology state, the people are afraid to speak out anything self-critical. Any self-critic in an ideological, self-glorifying state and society can be dubbed treachery. So the pakistani has to knowingly deceive himself and keep talking about the foreign hand causing all troubles. When will they break out of this? When will they throw away the bucket under which they are hiding their heads? How did the “islamically bravest and most heroic” nation on the earth become a society of self-deceiving cowards?

  17. Prasad

    October 26, 2010 at 8:51 am

    Excellent note. Short but showed your good command on this subject…

  18. Bin Ismail

    @Gorki (October 26, 2010 at 10:11 am)

    Very touching quotes of Baba Farid. These are values common to all sufis. The first of the quotes is a typical expression of the spirit of universality of the sufis. The second quote reveals the typical humility and spirit of self-abandonment common to all sufis. The sufis were people who could look over the walls of divisions and right through partitions. They sowed the seeds of tolerance, accommodation, mutual respect and love among people of diverse communities. Attacks on the last resting places of these truly Godly people could only be planned by truly satanic minds.

    @Talha (October 26, 2010 at 3:24 pm)

    “…..The yahoodi’s, hindu’s and the amreki agents are always discussed by countless idiots around the country…..”

    Agreed. In any case, why import a Yahudi, Hindu or Amreeki mercenary, when you can get much cheaper local brands right over the counter.

  19. MilesToGo

    An Arab genious brought the royalty to the masses. Royal crimes of looting, raping and enslaving that were limited mostly between royals and warriors were for the first time introduced to masses in a big way. The royal power of divine become easily acceccible. This Arab man handed out the divine licences to everyone and anyone to behave like royalty. Those who took it could them loot, rape and enslave those who did not take it. The curse still continues…

  20. Amaar


    I don’t know where you are coming from but by your fanciful logic texts such as vedas, shastri and bible incite a human to murder, violence and mayhem – and a lot more so than Quran (even if such an idiotic argument can be made). If that is not enough look at the crimes committed against humanity during WWII – was Islam somehow involved in the genocides?

    You still have miles to go before your mind returns to normal function.

  21. Humanity


    Take a long deep breath, and try to heal your core by letting go the anger and hate that is consuming you. Otherwise, your heart will turn into stone and life will no longer be worth living. Do yourself and others a favor, please.

  22. gandhi

    You always made heroes out of alien scoundrels such as Bin Kasims, Ghoris, Gazanis and so on. They looted, raped and destroyed the natives. You take the easy route and joined these aliens. now you have become those natives who can be looted, murdered and raped. You tried very hard to convince these aliens that real natives are on the east of the border in Delhi, Mumbai, Akhar Dham, Sankat Mochan in Varanasi and Jaipur. But for them you are an easy target. Soon following will unfortunately visit you as well:

    “A mark of a gunshot on his left thigh, suffered in the tribal attack on Jammu and Kashmir 63 years ago on this day serves as a living memorabilia of the “Kabaili attack and the resultant bloodshed”.

    Seated in his house in Nanak Nagar, retired Director of Agriculture and septuagenarian Suchwant Singh recalls how mothers fed “urine” to their children while hiding in caves to escape the tribals.“We were part of a caravan of refugees from Muzaffarabad, who lived on empty stomach for three days in caves. Mothers would give their urine to their thirsty young children, as there was constant fear of getting spotted by the tribals, if they moved out.”

    Suchwant has a vivid memory of the arson, loot and carnage that was set off by the Kabailis from adjoining Waziristan backed by Pakistan forces. He lost his mother and a sister during the upheaval, besides many other close relatives in the tribal attack.

    Once caught, his grandmother, who was fluent in Pashto, saved their lives and they took refuge at the house of a Sultan. Later, they remained captive in a Pakistan jail.

    Finally, he reached India in the winter of 1948 and joined a refugee camp at Kachi Chawni, exactly where the Red Cross Bhawan stands today.

    “There was restlessness among the people of our village, Kotli, that was the first border village with Pakistan. Maharaja had distributed country-made rifles among the people,” he recalls. He adds, “We were also apprehensive of some danger as the local Muslims, who were sympathetic towards us, had started impressing upon us to leave the place.”

    “On October 21, my grandmother, fearing any eventuality, sent my elder brother and younger sister with my mother across the river. My father was in the British Indian Army at that time,” Suchwant said.

    The next day they saw caravans of people rushing across the hanging bridge spanning the mighty Jhelum. “While I suffered the gunshot crossing the bridge, a rope got broken at the same time. My grandmother grabbed me and let go of the bundle of valuables in the river,” he said.

    “We did not follow people heading towards Gardi. They reached Srinagar safely by the Jhelum valley road,” Suchwant added.

    “On October 24, they were caught. People refused to convert their religion and started jumping into the Jhelum while the Kabailis opened fire on them. The waters on the banks of the river turned red with blood,” he continued.

    “I and my grandmother were taken to the Sultan of Boi. The Sultan knew our elders, so he helped us trace my elder brother,” Suchwant recalled with wet eyes. He added, “I was told that when my mother was dying, she was praying for my life.”

    It is said that the honour of a woman is bigger than her life. And to preserve that ‘honour’, a horrifying slaying of nearly 45 women by their own relatives is still afresh in the minds of a few survivors, who fled Pakistan after the tribal attack on Jammu and Kashmir.
    Harnam Kaur, 80, remembers the hair-raising details of the incident that took place this day 63 years ago, when her father, Daanmukh Singh, led a group of community men and killed their own mothers, daughters, sisters and wives so that the tribals could not violate their honour.
    “We had been running since the intervening night of October 21 when the tribal attack (Kabaili attack) took place. I was 17-year-old then. I remember we were trapped in a forest with the tribals all set to capture us,” recalls Harnam, who refused to be photographed.

    “Women were lined up and shot at by a group led by my father, the only person having a rifle. Many women, including my mother, died on the spot,” she said.

    Jameet Singh, 75, a resident of Nanak Nagar, nodded in affirmation. “Yes, this happened,” he said.

    Shuchwant Singh, another senior resident of the city, who was part of another group hidden nearby, endorsed the claims saying “Yes, the killing of our own women happened. I remember it.”

    Miraculously, both of his teenage daughters, Kulwant Kaur and Harnam Kaur, in spite of being shot at, escaped death as they got buried under the pile of corpses. However, minutes later all men in the cavalcade were butchered by the Kabailis and both girls were captured.

    “We used to live in Kotli before the attack. When my father and others fired at us. My sister and I were critically injured and we fell unconscious. I suffered a gunshot in the head while Kulwant was injured in the neck, besides she suffered sword cuts all over the body,” she said.

    “Next day when we regained our senses, we were in the captivity of Kabailis. We were taken to a refugee camp in Muzaffarabad. Thereafter, we kept shuttling from one camp to another in Pakistan. One year thereon, we reached Jammu and our uncle discovered us,” she added.

    However, every woman was not as lucky as they were. Many of them were forcibly abducted and married to people from other community. They were forced to change their religion and names and were now living in the PoK.

    However, as they say blood is thicker than water, despite being separated by borders and religion, they share the same bond with their relatives settled in various parts of India.

    Harbans Kaur, now Qasim Jaan, lost all her family members during the upheaval. Her cousin, Jameet Singh, who lives in Nanak Nagar, said, “I survived because I was in Srinagar at that time, but all my family members died. Thereafter, to meet my relatives, I had been to the PoK twice.” He added that his love for the birthplace did not subside over the years.

    Balwant Kaur, now Jameela, is another cousin of Jameet Singh, who has been living in the PoK. “They keep on writing letters, besides making telephone calls,” said Jameet’s wife Harnam Kaur, who accompanied Jameet on his visits.”

    “Do not go any further. Now, we have to to chase the Kabailis away.” This was the final words of Brig Rajinder Singh while encouraging panicky Muzaffarabad refugees to reach Srinagar, minutes before he was ambushed. It was the intervening night of October 26 and 27 in 1947.

    A septuagenarian, Harbhajan Singh Teig, who lives in Nanak Nagar here, an area predominantly inhabited by refugees from the PoK, recalled that he was one of the refugees who were encouraged by the valiant Brigadier before he died fighting the raiders.

    Harbhajan Singh, son of politician Sant Singh Teig, said, “The death-knell had already been sounded after Pakistan’s invasion and the fall of Muzaffarabad on October 22, 1947. Our home was in Hattian Dupatta, about 20 km from Muzaffrabad towards Kashmir. On the morning of October 23, we crossed the Jehlum and assembled in Gardi village.”

    “Next day, horse riders brought the news that a caravan of nearly 1,000 people led by Sant Baldev Singh was murdered by the tribal attackers. They kept looting and butchering the people of Muzaffarabad city for two days,” Harbhajan said.

    “At Chakothi, we had a halt. Brig Rajinder Singh, who was leading about 100 soldiers in seven trucks, reached there. He was brimming with confidence. He exhorted us to stay put and then went ahead to take on the Kabailis,” he said. He added that, “His words were taken well. Many youths led by Ishar Singh and Sant Singh set up a country-made canon and put up resistance to the Kabailies.”

    “Half an hour later, nearly 15 soldiers came back in a truck. Its driver, Jaswant Singh, told us that most of the soldiers had either been killed or captured. Thereafter, they did not stop and hurried away,” Harbhajan said. He added, “On hearing the news, people started running in different directions. In the stampede. I got separated by my family and trekked up to Uri where I reunited with my family.”

    “There was complete anarchy in Kashmir. The administrative set-up had collapsed. The Kabailis had blown up the Mahura Power Station and the city had plunged into darkness. Pakistan had stopped the supply of essential commodities, besides disrupting the postal and telecom services,” he said with a tremor in his voice as if he is living through his past.

    Collecting himself, Harbhajan went on, “Fearing political ramifications, Kashmiri leaders did not allow even a single refugee family to stay in Kashmir. Kashmir was climate wise more suitable to us than Jammu.”

  23. amar

    to amaar and MilesToGo

    All books of religion have a different relationship to death than we common men and women. The books of religion (BOR) speak as if they know with 100% certainty what comes in and after death. We commoners do not have such a certainty. That is the reason why these BOR have wrought havoc. The present-day situation is that the kuran-based faithfuls are the most violent, death-yearning and reckless. Whether any internal factors will help them come away from this? Muslim liberals practise the “art” of “running with the hares and hunting with the hounds”. Hence they are incapable of steering the course of events.

    We are living in very dangerous time. Like never before.

  24. O J DEEN

    [41:54] Soon We will show them Our Signs in all parts of the earth, and among their own people until it becomes manifest to them that it is the truth. Is it not enough that thy Lord is Witness over all things?
    Narrated by Ahmed in his Musnad, from Al-Nu’man b. Bashir, who said: ‘The Messenger of Allah said ‘Prophethood will be amongst you whatever Allah wishes it to be, then He will lift it up if He wished to lift it up. Then there will be a Khilafah on the way of the Prophet, and it will be whatever Allah wishes it to be, then He will lift it up if Allah wished to lift it up. Then there will be an inheritance rule, and it will be whatever Allah wishes it to be, then He will lift it up if He wished to lift it up. Then there will be a coercive rule, and it will be whatever Allah wishes it to be, then He will lift it up if He wished to lift it up. Then there will be a Khilafah on the way of Prophethood.’ Then he was silent.”
    O Europe! you are not secure, O Asia! you are not secure, O you who dwell in the Islands, no artificial god will come to your aid. I see the cities falling and I see the habitations in ruin. The One and the Unique has long remained silent…………. Abominations were committed before His eyes and yet He remained silent. But now He shall reveal His countenance in a dreadful manner. He who has ears to hear, let him hear! The hour is not far. I tried to bring everyone under the security of God, but the decrees of destiny had to be fulfilled.
    Assuredly, I say that this country’s turn is also drawing near. The days of Noah shall appear before your eyes, and you will see with your own eyes what happened to the land of Lot. But God is slow to wrath, repent so that you are shown mercy. He who abandons God is a worm, not a man, and he who does not fear Him is dead, not alive.”
    [Hadhrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad. Haqiqatul Wahy [Reality of Revelation]. 1907.]

  25. O J Deen, it seems to me a ludicrous idea to imagine a Creator who gives its creation free will and life and its pleasures just to spend it worshipping him or else be utterly vengeful if its creation doesn’t do this. Seems like the ultimate egotistical monster. Thankfully, my deen is different.

  26. Milestogo

    Islam has finally come to Pakistan I think Pakistan should stop all human rights violation against Taliban and their families immediately. They have every right to practice their religion. Moreover Pakistan should immediatley leave the Taliban controlled areas. They have a right to a home land.

    And the curse continues…

  27. O J DEEN

    God guides mankind towards the cure of physical ailments why would He not do so in the sphere of spiritual ailment? In every age He sent Prophets for this reason and when human life became an amalgamation of spiritual ailments He sent the Holy Prophet (peace and blessings of Allah be on him) and revealed His perfect teaching which made beastly people into godly people. After an age, when even the Muslims forgot to put this teaching in practice, in accordance with His promise, God sent the Promised Messiah (on whom be peace) who discovered pearls of knowledge in the existing teaching of the Holy Qur’an and cured spiritual ailments. He asserted that the cure of the ailments of the ummah was in this teaching. In medical field doctors make discoveries after long and arduous research, however God gave the cure for spiritual ailments 1400 years ago in the perfect Shariah and pious people in every age availed of it. In the latter-days, the Promised Messiah (on whom be peace) informed us of the cures for the new ailments. He removed all doubts about any form of abrogation in this teaching and then alone the real cure and antidote could be appreciated.

  28. gandhi

    Natives all over the world have been peaceful and loving. How come all these bachas of Prophets have caused so much destruction? I mean prophet like made up Roman Prophet of 400 AD (made into one after first persecuting Yogi Yeshu by same Romans), Saudi criminal Mohammed, Karl Marx/Mao/Stalin of 19th and 20th century and vulgar capitalists exploitive prophets of so called West.

    Why natives of India, Africas, Americas do not have concept of Prophet and single deity?

    This prophets etc and alien book reading is for enslaving natives.

  29. amar

    To O J Deen

    Monotheism is incapable of being genuinely tolerant and open-minded. A monotheist’s tolerance is only temporary or superficial. It canot be otherwise. Monotheism leads to arrogance and conceit in certain crucial matters. The only persecutors of sufis have been muslims. Sufism contradicts the very concept of holy book and hence they contradict all holy books – but their persecution comes only from the muslims.

    All so-called holy books have ended up causing more confusions and violence and hatred. The concept (faith) of last revelation or last prophet is especially dangerous. It leads to fascism in the hands of human beings of low intelligence and low wisdom (who are unfortunately the majority among mankind).

  30. Bin Ismail

    @amar (October 28, 2010 at 5:20 pm)

    “…..Monotheism leads to arrogance and conceit in certain crucial matters. The only persecutors of sufis have been muslims. Sufism contradicts the very concept of holy book and hence they contradict all holy books…..”

    On the contrary, a truly monotheistic mindset would inspire humility in the heart of the monotheist. Arrogance comes with ego and the greatest idol that stands between man and God is man’s own ego. It is this one idol that beckons man’s attention most. It is this idol that screens the infinitely beautiful countenance of God from man’s eyes. Man can truly become a monotheist only after removing this idol from his heart. As soon as the idol of “ego” departs from man’s heart, he comes to peace with his Creator and with himself. As soon as his heart is cleansed of the impurity of the “self”, he simultaneously attains true monotheism and true humility. In fact, exercising humility becomes an effortless state.

    All clergies, of all religions, and more specifically all politically inclined clergies have opposed and persecuted the mystics of their time. The clergy has never been able to offer the enlightenment, love and spirituality that has been the fruit of mysticism.

    Sufism does not at all contradict the concept of a Holy Book. It contradicts the literalistic approach towards revealed scriptures. It supports flexible and inclusive interpretations of sacred texts.

  31. amar

    to bin ismail

    thanks for your kind comment.

    but some religion will monopolize monotheism, it will proclaim that there is a last revelation and prophet from this one and only god and the followers of this religion are better than others (in fact, their holy book actually says that) then your well-meant comment will have no takers.

    In other words: real-life humans are not the ideal ones that your comment builds upon (or hopes for).

    I wonder why these gods are so unrealistic.

    Whatever that be, you will agree that this idea about last revelation and last prophet has proved to be a major even horrible bane. If there is one and only one god then there would be no need for such a finality (of revelation, prophethood etc.). This finality declaration destroys this god’s claim of being the one and only god. It is as if he wants to seal the path fearing later “upstarts and newcomers”. A genuine mono-god has no reason to seal off since he does not have to fear any later activist-god trying to de-place him.

    Do give a serious thought to this logic before coming up with pious self-satisfactions. Muslims learn to argue only among themselves and are lost when faced with non-muslim opposition to their smugness. Is that the reason why their holy book forbids contacts with non-muslims and instigates separatism among them? Muslims demanding Pakistan was an admittance of defeat and weakness. No wonder Pakistan has got reduced to a house of hypocrisies. Even today islam teaches muslims that they must avoid contact with any criticism of islam and muslim leaders are of the opinion that it is their religious duty to prevent any criticism of islam from reaching the eyes and ears of muslims. I have still to see a muslim who admits that some (or many) of the arguments brought forth by the opponents of his creed are correct. This is how things became dangerous and have now crossed the point of no return. That is the real arrogance that I was writing about.

  32. Amaar


    Your understanding of Islam applies to followers of all faiths not just Muslims who can be equally arrogant and prejudiced. The problem with Muslims have that they have lost touch the fundamental spirit of their religion. Their misdeeds are reflective of their own weakness- not that of Islam. This is an admission MOST Muslims themselves would make.

  33. amar

    to amaar

    Thanks for you comment but,

    Muslims make such admissions (beating one’s own chest is seen as heroic and pious) because they dare not criticize islam. Thus the real root of the problem repeatedly gets covered up. If certain criticisms are forbidden or threatened with death then how can honesty establish itself?

  34. Bin Ismail

    @gandhi (October 28, 2010 at 11:44 am)

    * “…..Why natives of India, Africas, Americas do not have concept of Prophet and single deity?…..”

    Concepts are susceptible to transformation, with the passage of time, unless God intervenes to revive and maintain the original concept. This is true not only to India, Africa and the Americas, but also to the Middle East. In my opinion, Christianity for instance, a religion born in the Middle East was at the time of its inception, as monotheistic as its parent creed Judaism. The original one-God concept evolved into Trinity and Jesus evolved from being a prophet and messenger of God to being the Son of God and a godhead. I believe that Krishna and Buddha, both from India, were also prophets and messengers of God, sent to the people of this land. I also believe that Confucious and Zoroaster, were prophets too. Their messages underwent transformation and were eventually changed. The Quran tells us that God sent His messengers to all lands and people. Unfortunately, all people were not history-conscious enough to preserve the biographical details of these extraordinary men, and thus the accounts of the lives of most prophets were ultimately lost.

    @amar (October 28, 2010 at 8:01 pm)

    * “…..some religion will monopolize monotheism…..”

    No religion can claim absolute monopoly over any form of virtuosity or righteousness. I believe that people are accountable to God not only for their professed beliefs, but also for their actions and the intentions preceding those actions.

    * “…..Is that the reason why their holy book forbids contacts with non-muslims and instigates separatism among them?…..”

    The Quran does not at all require this. In fact the Quran admonishes Muslims to invite people to the path of their Lord. How can they invite or preach, if they don’t mix – commonsense.

    * “…..Muslims demanding Pakistan was an admittance of defeat and weakness. No wonder Pakistan has got reduced to a house of hypocrisies…..”

    Muslims demanding Pakistan was an admittance to the failure of the Congress leadership to proceed with the Cabinet Mission Plan.

    The hypocrisy we find in the Pakistani politics today has nothing to do with Islam and everything to do with the mixing of politics and religion, in other words the political exploitation of Islam. The pro-theocratic inclination that was adopted in the post-Jinnah scenario was a major and shameless deviation from Jinnah’s vision of Pakistan.

  35. amar

    respected bin ismail

    You have quoted me and given responses to these quotes. None is fitting. Do read them again yourself and recognize that you answer something which has nothing to do with I wrote.

    1) I talked of monopolizing monotheism and you talk of monopolizing “virtuosity or righteousness”

    2) Mixing to preach one’s superiority is not what I referred to when I talked of muslim separatism. Preaching is based on a sense of separateness, of being better. The phrase “their (=muslims’) Lord” is revealing in this context. So muslims mix among non-muslims in order to backstab? Are these so-called invitations harmless, not connected to any threats (also subtle ones)?

    3) When you talk of the political exploitation of islam – well even your M. did it 1400 years ago. It was never otherwise and will never be otherwise.
    And you also belong to this faction that puts the blame for partition solely on the Congress party (a party with which I never ever sympathized)? The cabinet mission plan would have postponed muslim separatism and partition by a decade only. The long term goal of islam is to bring non-muslims under the rule of islam. A muslim who denies that is a liar or wishful-thinker.

    I thought you are a person who can discuss honestly.

  36. O J DEEN

    Obey the Holy Prophet and try to become his like
    To be a Muslim is not a child’s play. It requires complete submission in every thing to the Holy Prophet (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him). Do not take it cursorily. It is a matter worth deep consideration. Do not feel complacent until you obey the Holy Prophet completely. If you call yourself a Muslim without doing so, you have only a shell without the kernel. A wise man will not be happy with a shell only nor on bearing an empty name. In old times a Muslim in name tried to convert a Jew to Islam. The latter chided him for rejoicing on outward from devoid of inner reality. He said,
    “What is there in a name? I named my son Khalid, after the name of the famous Muslim conqueror who lived long and won brilliant victories for Islam. But before it was evening I had to bury my child.”
    So do not be happy with mere names. Seek instead the inner reality. What a shame! You profess to follow the Holy Prophet, the greatest of all Prophets, yet you live like kafirs. So live your life like the Holy Prophet and frame your mind like him. If you do not do so you are following Satan.
    It is easy to understand that the object of man’s life should be to become the beloved of God Almighty. Until a man becomes so, he has not succeeded in life. But this object is not attained until you obey the Holy Prophet truly. The Holy Prophet has shown by his conduct the real significance of Islam. So follow that Islam if you want to become the beloved of God.
    (Al-Hakam, January 24, 1901)

  37. Bin Ismail

    @amar (October 29, 2010 at 6:48 pm)

    * “…..1) I talked of monopolizing monotheism and you talk of monopolizing “virtuosity or righteousness”…..”

    I appreciate the fact that you did indeed speak about monopolizing monotheism. However, if you could be kind enough to refer to my previous comment, you would appreciate that I do not exactly segregate true monotheism and true righteousness. In my humble opinion, they happen to concur.

    * “…..2) Mixing to preach one’s superiority is not what I referred to when I talked of muslim separatism. Preaching is based on a sense of separateness, of being better. The phrase “their (=muslims’) Lord” is revealing in this context. So muslims mix among non-muslims in order to backstab? Are these so-called invitations harmless, not connected to any threats (also subtle ones)…..”

    In my opinion, preaching is not based on a sense of separateness. It is based on the desire to serve a fellow-human being. It is based on the wish to share the light that one has, with others. I don’t see where backstabbing comes in. You obviously appear to be mistaken about the concept of God in Islam. Allah introduces Himself in the very beginning of the Quran as “Rabb ul Aalameen”, which means “Lord of all the worlds” and not Lord of the Muslims as you have suggested.

    * “…..3) When you talk of the political exploitation of islam – well even your M. did it 1400 years ago. It was never otherwise and will never be otherwise.
    And you also belong to this faction that puts the blame for partition solely on the Congress party (a party with which I never ever sympathized)? The cabinet mission plan would have postponed muslim separatism and partition by a decade only. The long term goal of islam is to bring non-muslims under the rule of islam. A muslim who denies that is a liar or wishful-thinker…..”

    Now that was a judgemental statement. To begin with, Muhammad did not, rather could not exploit Islam. Muhammad was Islam. He was an embodiment of the message of Islam. While you may not be a sympathizer of the Congress, and I’ll take your word for it in good faith, yet I couldn’t help noticing your vehement defense of the Congress. What may or may not have followed if the CMP had been supported by the AINC, is now only of academic relevance. That is the past. The future of Pakistan and India lies ahead of them. Both nations have to move ahead with a more positive attitude.

    * “…..I thought you are a person who can discuss honestly…..”

    You are most certainly free to think as you choose. As to what I have said, I assure you, I have said honestly.

  38. Humanity

    @ Bin Islmail

    Your style and solid grasp are endearing. I learn from you. Thank you.

  39. amar

    to bin ismail

    1) “I do not exactly segregate true monotheism and true righteousness. In my humble opinion, they happen to concur.”

    There is no necessary logic for god (any god) to be good natured. The gods may well be sadists and cynics who have created mankind for their fun.

    2) “rabb ul alameen” is what the kuran says. Whether god himself says that? this “ul alameen” is an attempt to impose an arab god on non-arabs.

    3) “Muhammad was Islam. He was an embodiment of the message of Islam.”

    This disqualifies islam severely in the 21st century. It is disastrous to upvalue a human being so much. You muslims learn idealized (not real) versions of islam and then bring forth unrealistic or even anti-realistic arguments. M’s biography contains some very dangerous examples. Much of today’s islamic downfall is a result of this.