Hatred and bigotry – when will this end?

by Usman Ahmed

I have with me, at the time of writing, a number of bumper stickers, leaflets and pamphlets regarding Ahmadis (or Qadianis as they are more derogatively referred to). According to the material at my disposal Ahmadis are traitors, criminals and the very worst kind of heretics. One leaflet is telling me in the most hideously bold type that even if Ahmadis flee to the moon it is the obligation of all Muslims to hunt them down and make their life as miserable there as it has been made on earth. Of course, it fails to mention how this costly venture might be undertaken or tackle the logistical problem of how hundreds and thousands of zealous Muslims, pitchforks, dandas and other fiendish accoutrements in hand, might actually get there. But hey! Forget the feasibility issues, surely it is worth going all the way to the moon to…wait…to…well I don’t know what exactly but I am sure it will be fun once the party gets started– although I suppose not so much fun if you’re an Ahmadi.

Another piece veritably screams out that any Muslim guilty of drinking a product of the Shezan Company (God forbid that ever happen) will forever burn in the fire of hell. Oh, and just to exacerbate the torment, so will their families. Well there you have it folks – hell, fire, brimstone and eternal damnation all neatly packaged up in a 250 ml liter carton of mango juice. Genius! But what if someone were to eat a tasty tidbit from one their numerous bakeries or dare to purchase a Mercedes automobile – what then? Will Satan’s minions drag them away from their chocolate cupcake or will they be driven to the underworld in expertly crafted German luxury by Lucifer himself? Unfortunately the erudite authorities who produced these wonderfully informative publications again fail to shed much light on these highly important questions. Nevertheless, so proud are they of their efforts, that they have gone out of their way to print the name of their reputable institution and phone number (0301 7083722 if anyone is interested) in order to leave no element of doubt as to who is responsible for these wonderfully incoherent and trite blatherings.

Surely this begs the question of whether such things are an incitement of religious hatred. Do they not disturb the peace, create a ‘law and order situation’ or impinge on the rights of others? Or to put it more succinctly are they not criminal acts? If so, then why are the perpetrators of these crimes so brazenly allowed to flout the laws? After the May 28 terror attacks on two Ahmadi mosques (I refuse to call them abadat ghas) sweets were distributed in many parts of Pakistan celebrating this wonderfully ‘heroic’ deed, the government and the political elites fell over themselves trying to ignore the fact that the tragedy had even occurred and certain media outlets decided to give air time to clerics so that they could pronounce to the world that Ahmadis are wajabal qatal. And so this barbaric crime was tolerated and in some quarters even eulogized. What has since been the fallout? The extremists and hate-mongers were emboldened and continued to wreak their particular brand of havoc and destruction. Except that the next time their victims were not Ahmadis – but other ‘Muslims’ -worshipping at the Darbar of Hadrat Data Ganj Buksh and more recently at Abdullah Shah Ghazi’s Mazar in Karachi. Whereas our society needs to, in one sense, become more tolerant of others – it also need to adopt a zero tolerance policy regarding fanatics and bigots. Literature published against Ahmadis and indeed other groups might seem trivial to some but it is just another symptom of the problems that are tearing Pakistan apart. It is high time that the true traitors and criminals were brought to justice.

66 Comments

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66 responses to “Hatred and bigotry – when will this end?

  1. A Aarzu Basa Ke Khak Shudd…

  2. neel123

    Something that has been so successfully preached in the madrasas, in the mosques, through school curriculum, and through the media agents of the Pakistani army for at least a generation, is not going to be wished away so easily.

    The Pakistanis have been tolerant to such evil, and now “Karma” is what is catching up with the Pakistanis.

  3. The only way to bring about an end to this madness is for someone to send out a loud message that killing solves no problem.

    All muslims must realise that killing will not remove the hatred they harbour in their hearts. There are other ways in use by all humanity.

  4. Hameed

    Hate is an export item too…

    Gaurdian: Hate Campaign against Ahmadis in London
    http://www.wimbledonguardian.co.uk/news/ahmadiyya/

  5. Hamzah

    Milestogo – I think your bigotory does nothing more than lend credence to an excellent article. God help us with people like you. Do you mind giving the Islamic references which suggest that the punishment for apostacy is death. To my knowledge the subject has been best dealt with in surah kafirun. There is also the small matter of the verse in surah baqra which says there is no compulsion in religion.

  6. Hamzah

    @ the Arabic religion you are reffering to is called Islam please refer to it as such. Also in the case of the ahmadis they fully consider themselves Muslims it’s just the bigots in Pakistan have decided to declare them as heretics – there leaving not leaving is a non-issue.

  7. Hameed

    TV channels are not behind;

    Ummah Channel in trouble over “hate” programming
    http://media247.co.uk/bizasia/newsarchive/2010/10/ummah_channel_i.php

  8. Hameed

    In a recent conference in Rabwah attended by all main maulanas Syed Munawar Hassan et el, Ahmadis were blamed of everything under the sun including the current judicial crisis;

    http://www.express.com.pk/epaper/PoPupwindow.aspx?newsID=1101075870&Issue=NP_LHE&Date=20101016&sms_ss=email&at_xt=4cb8e74014c666b8,0

    When are these maulansa going to grow up?

  9. Hameed

    @Milestogo:

    No such luck for Ahmadis as even according to the ‘moderate’ Tahir-ul- Qadri there is no forgiving even if Ahmadis ‘repent’. Death penalty is mandatory.

    For three days from November 14 to 17, 1985 Dr Qadri presented his arguments continuously before the Federal Sharia Court of Pakistan to determine the quantum of punishment to be awarded to a person guilty of contempt of the finality of the Holy Prophet (blessings and peace be upon him), an extremely delicate legal matter.

    He established, on evidence from the Quran and Sunna, that a person guilty of contempt of the finality of the Holy Prophet (blessings and peace be upon him) deserved death sentence and the punishment will be imposed as Hadd.

    The act of contempt of the finality of the Prophet (blessings and peace be upon him) is a crime, which cannot be tolerated whether its commission is direct or indirect, intentional or un-intentional. The crime is so sanguine that even his repentance cannot exempt him from the penalty of death. Dr Qadri placed a massive array of arguments before the learned Court and particularly stressed the point that no lacuna should be allowed in the legal structure of an Islamic state to encourage this form of sacrilege.

    Link from Minhaj site google cache: http://tinyurl.com/38k6gd7

    Original page has been very recently removed since the good Dr had to revamp his image towards a moderate look for his residence in the west.

  10. Hameed

    My comments in moderation.

  11. Bin Ismail

    1: “There is NO coercion in matters of religion.”(Quran 2:256 )

    Thus, NO coercion is permissible in any matter that can be termed “religious” in any way.

    2: “Whoever chooses to believe LET him believe and whoever chooses to disbelieve LET him disbelieve”(Quran 18:29)

    Thus, we are bound to LET all humans believe or disbelieve, as their choice may be.

    3: “Those who believe and then disbelieve, then again believe and then again disbelieve, and then advance in disbelief, Allah will not grant them forgiveness nor will He guide them to the Path”(Quran 4:137)

    Thus, there is no corporal punishment for even repeated apostasy. This verse speaks of repeated apostasy. How would that be possible if the apostate would have already been put to death after his first instance of apostasy? Even after repeated apostasy, the only punishment mentioned is of a spiritual nature – nothing physical even then.

    4: “Your religion is for you and my religion is for me”(Quran 109:6)

    Thus, a Muslim is required to respect the religious affiliation of the other. This verse speaks of complete religious freedom and respect for choice.

  12. Amaar

    @milestogo

    Read bin Ismail’s comments. Another article ‘Can an Islamic State be Secular?’ (on PTH) also answers your views. I am afraid you are gargling out the same stuff that has been answered over and over again. FYI The likes of Zakir Naik have lost touch with Islam. They represent as much Islam as the crusaders represented Jesus the son of Mary.

  13. Bin Ismail

    @MilesToGo (October 17, 2010 at 12:24 am)

    The state of war is being discussed. The phrase “if they turn back” means “if they revoke their ceasefire”, not apostasy.

  14. Salman Arshad

    The issue of Ahmedis is that of a false prophet.

    Apostasy is only implied.

    The issue of a false prophet is a serious issue, in lines with the way the first Caliph handled it. He killed the false prophet along with all the followers. The rest is interpretation.

    The ‘false prophet’ could not be killed at the time of the British. It has since been a cause of resentment, that NO MUSLIM scholar has ever addressed, by determining that the ‘fake prophet’ or his followers were not punishable.

    I think hatred and bigotry is not the issue here. It is the religious legitimacy to the hatred and bigotry that is the problem.

    No amount of anti-apostasy punishment explanations can nullify the false prophet incident.

    You can talk about the constitution and the state using its writ to protect Ahmedis, but that is not “fair” to the religion of the majority.

  15. Talha

    Here you have it folks, the above posts perfectly depicts why Muslims lag behind so brutally. The twisted history which concentrates on implying a violent path of Islam rather than the reality has caused them to lust for killing and murder.

    Why do you not leave it up to Allah to decide who is false or not, I mean there is not certification or verification that any Prophet had in their time. Every preceding religion considers the bearer of new religion to be ‘false’.

    The difference though is that nuts like the above guy is going on about killing by giving an example from Hadhrat Abu Bakr lifetime which was different to what this loon knows.

    Pathetic.

  16. Talha

    For that matter how can one verify if Jesus was a false prophet or Moses for that matter.

    Leave this idiot be, TTP have started to use the internet now.

  17. Javed

    @SA

    the claimant to prophethood, inaddition to muhammad, during muhammad’s own time was left untouched and unharmed, and died a natural death.

    abu bakr’s issue, as the head of the state, was with a refusal to pay zakat, the state’s due, as an expression of a clear and open rebellion against the state. the rebellion was about far more than zakat, including armed revolt, but zakat was legally significant as justification for the state to act.

  18. Talha

    @ Javed

    Let these people be, they have read omitted history which has been used to form their intolerant and violent mindset.

    In a theological debate, as stated by many religions that all the power lies in the hands of God and he chooses the path of each and every individual. If this is the case then there cannot be anything ‘false’ per say. This in itself far too complicated for especially the jihadis.

  19. Salman Arshad

    @ Javed:

    I was talking about Musailma, and Abu Bakr had ordered all the men of his tribe to be killed even after the battle was over, simply because too many Muslims had been killed. In the battle Musailma and all his soldiers were killed, at a separate place. This battle was deemed to be the bloodiest battle till that time.

    The bloodiest battle in Islam’s history fought over zakat? And it were the Muslims who marched towards the tribe of Musailma. Not the other way.

    I am not sure which false prophet died a natural death. There was a woman though who had later embraced Islam.

    @ Talha:

    I am not from the TTP. Even though I support their right to their simplistic arguments for hatred and bigotry.

    The problem I was trying to highlight was that there are serious problems with documented Islamic history, and the general breed of scholars support hatred and bigotry.

  20. hammad

    @Salaman Arshad – your first post is so beyond parody it is beyond belief.

    You compare Mirza Sahib to Musallma Kazab – in so much as they are ‘false prophets’ – and declare that in the case of the Ahmadis this is the principle issue and not of the hatred and bigotry they have to endure in their day to day lives as citizens of Pakistan. Here, I would strongly beg to differ with you. Firstly – the Holy Quran does not sanction any punishment for false prophets or those who lie in the name of God. According to the verses in Surah al-Haqqah – God says that even if the Holy Prophet had told any lie against him he would have seized him and cut his jugular vein. In accordance with this verse Musalma met the Holy Prophet in Madina and invited him to his prophecy – which the Holy Prophet declined and he let him and his followers leave Madina in peace. That is the standard all Muslims should aspire to. The Prophet did not curse, abuse or use violence against the followers of Musallma as is regularly deployed against Ahmadis. Thus, the bigger issue is not the fact that Ahmadis follow a ‘false prophet’ but rather that a form of violence and persecution is being deployed against them that has no sanction in Islam.

    Further – the comparison with Muslama is highly ill-informed. God showed his – to use an urdu word – ghairat for the Prophet by having him killed in a battle which was essentially one fought over rebellion against the state. But in the case of Mirza Sahib God showed no such Ghairat. Not only did Mirza Sahib claim to be the recipient of Divine Revelation since the 1880’s – he also claimed to be the Messiah and Mahdi – and this a de facto prophet – for almost twenty years. Was he treated in the same way as the likes of Musalma? No instead his Jama’at continued to grow steadily and does so to this day. There are almost 40 million Ahmadis in the world right now. The success of this Jama’at has continued even after the death of Mirza Sahib. They are a highly educated and successful Jama’at. Almost all Ahmadis – the ones I have met anyway – are university educated and valuable members of the society they live in. I do not think anyone needs reminding that the first ever Muslim to win the Nobel Prize – was our very own – Professor Abdus Salam – who was also an Ahmadi. If these people are such hideous apostates as the Maulawis claim – where is God now – why is not stopping their success in the way he cut down the likes of Musallama. What are the Maulawais of today the tehka dars of Islam. And if so who exactly gave them this tehka. I think the article answers this. It is us who have allowed the so called Islamic clergy to take ownership of a religion they have no rights to. Our silence, cowardice and tacit acceptance of what is going on has allowed this situation to develop – and instead of causing harm to Ahmadis – who continue to be highly successful and are now an international community – we have only brought our country to ruin. I know many Ahmadis and I for one wish to exist side by side with them as an equal.

  21. Salman Arshad

    @ hammad:

    I have nothing against your beliefs.

    But those whom you target as hating and bigoted, are really normal people only diligently following a certain interpretation of Islam, that is widely supported, according to which the person you believe to be a real prophet, is considered to be a false prophet, and according to which the actions of the first four Caliphs are held to be an almost true representation of the Quran.

  22. Hammad

    @ salman arshad just because I speak in favour of ahmadis does not make me one. Also your point about the first four caliphs is null and void -especially in light of the fact that – as mentioned earlier – the prophet let musalma live. But again you miss the point – whatever their beliefs – the actions against them have no sanction in Islam. Effectively what this means is that unislamic methods are being used to counteract their supposed unislamic beliefs. This brand of Islam is what is tearing the country apart. Islam is not a monolith. By targeting one group the door has been opened to all types of sectrrianism – as in the case of the attack on the shrines in Lahore and Karachi. If pakistanis and the ulama want to continue with this brand of Islam than fair enough but look at what it has brought them so far.

  23. Javed

    @SA

    >>The bloodiest battle in Islam’s history fought over zakat?<<

    you are naively thinking of zia's zakat. zakat/tax was the only act signifying submission to the state. every state in history has taken exactly the same view of open rebellion. it's war.

  24. Nasir

    @ Salman Arshad – your comment “But those whom you target as hating and bigoted, are really normal people ” – ARE YOU LIVING IN DISNEYLAND? – you are a sad excuse for a human being devoid of any sense of reality.

  25. Javed

    @SA

    what is stopping chrisitians from resurrecting the attitudes and beliefs of the inquisition? why is there no lords army in the west as there is in central africa with its handiwork resulting in scores of thousands dead and even more forcibly amputated?

    are you claiming that some muslims are good students of history according to you and some are not, and some muslims are bad people and some are not? or are you saying they are all bad people entitled to less rights than those who think religion is bad?

  26. Hameed

    @Salman Arshad:

    “The issue of Ahmedis is that of a false prophet.”

    So the Hindu majority in India who considers Islam false religion can kill or persecute Muslims because Muslims follow a false prophets according to Hindus? Same with Muslim minorities in other non-Muslim countries? In fact Christians clearly think Muslim prophet to be false so good reason according to you for them to kill Muslims. Indeed there have been wars during crusades between Muslims and Christians over religious domination in the past. You seem to give a valid justification for such wars. By your standards Bush did good to start a crusade as according to him Islam is a false. Bush is also quiet normal looking apparently to have been elected President.

  27. Amir Mahmood

    usman says the truth .

  28. Sardar KHAN

    Why you are so against Islam and Muslims,can you explain?
    In my veiw Qadianis choose to be falowers of false Messiah.It is their choice,why blame Maulvis for calling them non-muslims.As I have said before,if they accept that they are not Muslims and stop preaching their religion as Islam it will solve the problem at once and then no case for. persecution

  29. Hameed

    if they accept that they are not Muslims and stop preaching their religion as Islam it will solve the problem at once and then no case for. persecution”

    Why should Ahmadis accept themselves non-Muslim when they consider themselves Muslim? This is called freedom of religion. You can’t force people to believe what they don’t want to. A concept obviously alien to you.
    Anyone who causes persecution of Ahmadis for exercising their right of freedom of believes is a terrorist.

  30. Bin Ismail

    @MilesToGo (October 17, 2010 at 1:35 am)

    “…..They desire that you should disbelieve as they have disbelieved…..”

    The verse is essentially with reference to the state of war. Since the aggressors who initiated war against the Prophet were also those who desired that Muslims abandon their faith, hence these words.

    @Salman Arshad (October 17, 2010 at 3:05 am)

    “…..The issue of Ahmedis is that of a false prophet…..”

    This is obviously a very subjective statement. We learn from the hadith that there have been more than one hundred thousand prophets. What is interesting is that each and every single one of these men of God was rejected, insulted, ridiculed, opposed and persecuted. From the viewpoint of those who opposed them, the issue was invariably one of a false prophet.

  31. Nusrat Pasha

    “Alas for My servants. There comes not to them a messenger but they mock at him.”
    [Quran, Sura Yasin, ayat#30]

  32. Hameed

    Hailing the ‘Muslim Citizen’: State Nationalism and the Social Construction of the “Heretic” in Pakistan

    by Sadia Saeed

    [Paper presented at the annual meeting of the American Sociological Association, New York, New York City, Aug 11, 2007]

    http://secularpakistan.wordpress.com/2010/10/17/hailing-the-%e2%80%98muslim-citizen%e2%80%99-state-nationalism-and-the-social-construction-of-the-%e2%80%9cheretic%e2%80%9d-in-pakistan/

  33. Hameed

    Hailing the ‘Muslim Citizen’: State Nationalism and the Social Construction of the “Heretic” in Pakistan

    by Sadia Saeed

    [Paper presented at the annual meeting of the American Sociological Association, New York, New York City, Aug 11, 2007]

    Link: secularpakistan.wordpress.com/2010/10/17/hailing-the-%e2%80%98muslim-citizen%e2%80%99-state-nationalism-and-the-social-construction-of-the-%e2%80%9cheretic%e2%80%9d-in-pakistan/

  34. Hameed

    SAY NO TO THE STATE RELIGION

    Support the Campaign for Amendment in Article 2 of the Constitution of Pakistan, 1973

    http://saynotothestatereligion.blogspot.com/2008/08/support-campaign-for-amendment-in.html

  35. Bin Ismail

    @MilesToGo

    “…until they fly (their homes) in Allah’s way…”

    The actual words, “hattaa yuhaajiroo fee sabeelillaah” (4:89), a close transliteration would in my opinion, be translated as “..until they emigrate in the way of Allah..”. The message here is that even in the state of war, if your aggressors come and join you for God’s sake, you are obliged to accept them as your friends and abandon combat forthwith.

    The second scenario described in this verse is that in the event of a ceasefire, if someone breaches it and resumes combat, he should be met with combat.

  36. Salman Arshad

    @ Hameed:

    “So the Hindu majority .. can kill or persecute Muslims…”

    Yes. According to religious “logic”, yes.
    I am not the one giving the justification. The scriptures give the justification. I just stand by the right of people to believe in such bigotry.

    Religion is by faith, not by evaluation. Whoever believes in religion, need not use any logic to justify why it is true or false. In practice, people do have certain subjective evidences to support their beliefs, but normally those are very difficult to challenge. Some may simply believe because “mama and papa” told them to, but they would die rather than give up the belief.

    So if you stand by freedom of religion, you must stand by the freedom of people to believe in a religion that is against freedom itself. You can challenge them on the validity of the religion, but not take away their freedom to believe in it.

    “Why should Ahmadis accept themselves non-Muslim when they consider themselves Muslim? This is called freedom of religion”

    This kind of freedom of religion does not exist in Islam as we know it in its most common form. There are esoteric interpretations that are very compatible with 21st century human rights, but they have a very weak basis in documented history.

    @ Javed:
    If we look at the matter as of “domination”, then all of them are the “bad people”.
    But all are not bad. I would say ALL the scholars are “bad people”, save a few chicken-hearted peaceful beings living in the west for their security, where they are not needed.

    The millions of Muslims who blindly follow bigoted scholars are not bad people. They are normal people dilligently following the Islam they have had access to for about a century or so. I would include the Taliban soldiers too.

    @ Bin Ismail:

    It is a subjective matter only according to you. Not according to those who hold the opinion. They have enough “proofs” from the same set of Hadiths to satisfy themselves completely to hold such an opinion.

  37. Humanity

    @ Sardar Khan “As I have said before,if they accept that they are not Muslims and stop preaching their religion as Islam it will solve the problem at once and then no case for. persecution”

    The above statement sounds eerily similar to what the kuffar-e- Mecca would say to the Muslims, according to the history books.

    These fools believe they have the authority to judge who is or is not a Muslim, as if they can share Allah’s sovereignty. They only expose how stray and misguided they really are. Make no mistake, the state issued “Muslim” certificate ain’t a free entry pass to heaven. It is as fake as the degrees of the people who masquerade as the the thekedaars of Islam.

  38. Humanity

    @ Salman Arshad ‘”Why should Ahmadis accept themselves non-Muslim when they consider themselves Muslim? This is called freedom of religion”

    This kind of freedom of religion does not exist in Islam as we know it in its most common form. There are esoteric interpretations that are very compatible with 21st century human rights, but they have a very weak basis in documented history.’

    So, for non-Ahmadi Muslims, the ‘freedom’ of religion is permitted solely on faith without requiring any reason or logic. However, for Ahmadis, these rules of “Islam” do not exist. What a totally twisted, sick, and wicked non-sense!

    As per your statements, Islam is just a bigoted and hypocritical belief system. What an arrogant and narcissistic mindset! It feels no shame in maligning Islam so utterly. The extreme decay of the ‘Muslim’ beliefs over the centuries is totally exposed.

    To expect the mullah to lead the herd out of the bone yard to the promised land is lunacy. The mullah who craves duniya in the guise of deen. The mullah who seeks earthly power. The mullah who kills for control. The mullah who has lead to the most un-Islamic way of life. The proof is in the pudding.

    The fossilized mindset absolutely validates the need for divine intervention. It is Allah’s mercy to guide the stray through His messengers. All His messengers were ridiculed, called a liar, rejected as a false prophets. That the divine missions faced opposition and persecution, is recorded in the scriptures and history books. That the divine mission is destined to succeed is also Allah’s promise.

    So hunt the Ahmadis down to the moon to kill them, deny or ridicule as you please, you can’t change Allah’s sunnah. Don’t like it, tough luck. You can’t take away the freedom to believe from anyone!

  39. ali hamdani

    Good one I must say. The Mercedes example just shows us the religious hatred we have been inducing in our societies which must be fought out of this country to introduce a calm secular state.

  40. Usman

    As the author of the post there is a few points I think I should respond to.

    I was slightly worried that the comments here would to some extent descend into a theological slanging match and unfortunately this appears to be the case.

    This deviates from the basic principle of the article – that is, by enshrining into the laws and psyche of the nation – the notion of the Ahmadi as ‘the other’ – the lawmakers and indeed society at large have opened a Pandoras Box which has now become impossible for them to close.
    By the very fact that specific laws and constitutional provisions exist against them means that society is fractured into at least two groups – Ahmadis and every one else. In 1974 when Bhutto passed the second amendment declaring Ahmadis non-Muslims – not only deed he marginalize them as a people but he created a tear in the very fabric of society at large. The fabric was torn further by general Zia and today it lies totally ripped to shreds.
    What has the anti-Ahmadi movement achieved?Yes Ahmadis are no longer Muslims under the laws – but so what. Do they conisder themselves non-Muslims? Have they seen the ‘error of their ways and reverted back to the true form of Islam’? Are they still non-Muslims once they leave the borders of Pakistan? The facts are that this legislation has achieved absolutely nothing positive. The sanctity of the Prophet has not been preserved as Muslim extremists have done more to defile his being and his religion than the Ahmadis ever could. Hate crimes and riots started against Ahmadis but now all Muslims are targeted. You cannot open the door to sectarianism and also expect to control the consequences as well. You cannot control hatred – it has a life of its own – and it is this hatred that is killing Pakistan today.

    What makes this all the more tragically ironic is that the legislation that has been introduced to preserve the sanctity of Islam does not have any basis in Islam itself. As many here have pointed out already – in the lifetime of the Prophet Musalma was allowed to live and freely practice and preach his own religion – despite his counter claim of prophethood. A further example is the Blasphemy laws which sanction the death penalty. Which verse of the Holy Quran or Hadith prescribes this. The Quranic principle is quite simple – do not abuse even the idols of others lest they in their anger abuse your God.

    Just one further point. The poison against Ahmadis is so widespread and seeped into every strata of society and the propaganda against them so vitriolic that most people don’t even know what the real issues between themselves and Ahmadis are. Let me clear a few things up – Ahmadis do not have their own Kalima – they do not secretly revile and abuse the Prophet Muhammad – they are not in cohoots with the British government (and how the wahabis can allege this with straight face given their historic ties to the British is beyond me – they do not do a different form of Salat etc etc. The only real difference is that they believe that the Promised Reformer awaited in Islam has come and the other Muslims are still awaiting the physical descent of the old Jesus. As far as Khatme – Nabuwaat goes they believe that the Prophet perfected prophethood and changed the nature of future prophecies – but did not end it. That is to say – that although prophets could come in the past and achieve this rank independently – now nobody can come who is not subordinate to the Prophet Muhammad and who does not attain this rank wholly by following him. This too is that radical especially when one considers that the rest of the Muslim world is still awaiting the arrival of Jesus without giving any second thoughts to how this might effect the finality of prophethood.

    But theological difference aside – surely the purpose of religion – any religion – is to reform people and make them better human beings. Can anyone honestly say that todays brand of Islam is fulfilling this aim. Was this the great bright future envisaged by the Prophet – surely not. And if so than you can count me out for one.

  41. Hira Mir

    Over the past three years or so, the sectarianism has increased rapidly. We must fight the religious hatred and avoid it as Islam gives many rights to minorities also.

  42. Bin Ismail

    @Hira Mir (October 18, 2010 at 11:45 am)

    “…..Islam gives many rights to minorities also…..”

    You may like to consider rephrasing this as “Islam recognizes all human rights of all humans”.

    It is Allah the Almighty who, as Creator and Lord of Humanity, has given rights to the entire Human race, irrespective of whether anyone belongs to the majority class of a certain nation or minority. Yes, Islam recognizes all these rights without any class distinction. But on the other hand Islam does not recognize the right of a group of mortals to declare another group of mortals non-Muslim through legislation.

    Regards.

  43. Shameem

    The contents of the stickers and leaflets quoted by Usman remind me of a hadith of the Holy Prophet (PBUH):
    “There shall come about an era of great turmoil to my Ummah. People will turn to their Ulama (for guidance), but will find them only as monkeys and swines.”(Kanz ul Ummal p.190/7)
    It is for us to be mindful of the above warning and take protective and preventive measurs.

  44. Bin Ismail

    @Usman Ahmad

    “Hatred and bigotry – when will this end?” This will end when those who preach hatred and bigotry are detached from the state and marginalized by the society.

  45. Kiran

    @ Usman: thank you for sharing this article and for clarifying points in your response dated Oct 18th…..very well said.

    It is sad to see so much hatred amongst people in our society today…..especially when these people call themselves muslims and claim to follow the religion that promotes peace. These people are creating nothing but chaos in society. I pray that they realize the true meaning of Islam and leave the Judging to Allah Alone…as He is the best Judge.

  46. Salman Arshad

    “… Islam gives many rights to minorities also”

    When the Divine clearly differentiates between “us” and “them”, how can you blame the people ?

    Muslims are superior because it doesn’t make sense for them not to be. The last Prophet, the last message of God.. are SPECIAL simply because they are not “one of the many”, but the LAST. And Ahmediyat appears to jeopardize the “specialty” of all those who don’t want to ascribe to it, they get to be the last !

    Calling people’s beliefs “hatred and bigotry” will only offer an escape from the real problem.

  47. Humanity

    @ Salman Arshad “Muslims are superior because it doesn’t make sense for them not to be”

    Like their chosen Jewish cousins, Muslims can now thump their chests as the superior ones because they too have lost the sense of sanity. Both create mayhem and misery, while they await Messiah.

    Summum bukmun ‘umyun fahum la_ yarji’u_n. Al-Baqara. No wonder, God’s message of peace and love, has been defiled and dragged into dust. Muslims have much to worry and a huge uphill battle against their arrogance, superiority complex, and ignorance. God help the lost herd!

  48. Arjun

    >Hameed
    >
    >So the Hindu majority in India who considers Islam false >religion can kill or persecute Muslims because Muslims
    >follow a false prophets according to Hindus? Same with
    >Muslim minorities in other non-Muslim countries?

    Hameed, just to remove some ignorance here: Hinduism does not judge other religions to be false. It believes that the Divine is omnipotent and leads individuals to itself in the way It sees fit. The analogy is that of climbing a mountain – there are multiple paths to the Divine. So by this token, Hindus do not and can not consider Islam to be false. This is why songs like “Allah tero naam, Ishvar tero naam, sab ko sanmati de Bhagvan” are considered Hindu bhajans.

    Any negative feeling some Hindus may have towards Muslims is not because of faith, but because of what the Muslims have done in the past and continue to do to us – the many brutal invasions, the forceful conversions, the vicious hatred and ridicule etc. The Hindu siders in the Babri masjid issue are also fighting not for faith but to right so-called historical wrongs of historical temple destruction.

    So there’s no concept of false religion or false prophet that can justify killing another person in Hinduism. The only justification to killing in this belief system is a fight against injustice.

  49. Arjun

    To add to the above about Hinduism: More important than and beyond what “religion”-label one claims to adhere to whether it is “Christianity”, “Islam” or something else, is the law of karma which says that every person will get the fruits of his or her own thoughts and actions. So if one claims to worship “Allah” but not follow righteous thoughts and actions, Hinduism says they will get their just rewards of such thoughts and actions per the law of karma, religion-labeling being irrelevant.

  50. John

    @Arjun – thank you for elucidating on the Hindu viewpoint – although to be honest I think Hameed was just illustrating a point – rather making a claim based on theology. If for example Hindus, Christians or anyone else began to treat Muslim minorities in their countries as Pakistan’s Muslims treat the Ahmadis it would be intolerable for them. The fact is that religious persecution has no sanction in Islam – the basis Islamic principle regarding dealings with others – is to do unto others as you would have done unto yourself. Thus, Muslims make a mockery of themselves when they rail against perceived injustices against themselves and yet treat Ahmadis and indeed other minorities as inferior beings not only in Pakistan – but other Islamic countries like Saudi Arabia.

  51. John

    “Well there you have it folks – hell, fire, brimstone and eternal damnation all neatly packaged up in a 250 ml liter carton of mango juice. Genius!”

    HaHa – surely this feat of ingenuity deserves a Nobel Prize! Wait – Ahmadis and Nobel Prizes – haven’t we been here before?

  52. John, yes, I realize it was an illustrative point Hameed was making but I wanted to point out that the premise of the point was incorrect (I’m including Hameed’s comment below to illustrate). Yes, as you say and I agree: the general point itself that he is making about Muslim minorities in non-Muslim societies is valid, of course.

    >So [b]the Hindu majority in India who considers Islam false
    >religion can kill or persecute Muslims because Muslims
    >follow a false prophets according to Hindus[/b]?

  53. Bin Ismail

    Latest News: Another Ahmadi was shot dead in Sheikhupura yesterday.

  54. @Bin Ismail

    How many remaining?

  55. Bin Ismail

    @moniems (October 19, 2010 at 6:24 pm)

    “How many remaining?”

    x – 1

  56. Humanity

    @moniems “How many remaining?”

    Hate has stripped humanity from the Muslims. Even a donkey knows to not gloat at senseless loss of life.

    “A little consideration, a little thought for others, makes all the difference.” ~Eeyore, from “Winnie the Pooh”

    The self-admiring, superior Muslims should learns form Pooh’s Little Instruction Book instead of their vitriol filled ideology that peddles zulmat in the name of zia.

  57. @Bin Ismail and Humanity

    Shukriya!

    Is there anyone who can explain to these barbarians that killing serves no purpose?

    x-1 will never be equal to zero. Besides x is a figure which is multiplying. Killing does nothing more than making widows and orphans.

    Has anything ever been achieved by killing? Nothing!

    Why kill?

  58. Humanity

    ..those who choose not to empathize enable real monsters. For without ever committing an act of outright evil ourselves, we collude with it, through our own apathy.” J K Rowling

  59. Humanity

    From “All I Really Need to Know I Learned in Kindergarten” by Robert Fulgham:

    I realized then that I already know most of what’s necessary to live a meaningful life—that it isn’t all that complicated. I know it. And have known it for a long, long time. Living it—well, that’s another matter, yes? Here’s my Credo:

    ALL I REALLY NEED TO KNOW about how to live and what to do and how to be I learned in kindergarten. Wisdom was not at the top of the graduate-school mountain, but there in the sandpile at Sunday School. These are the things I learned:

    Share everything.

    Play fair.

    Don’t hit people.

    Put things back where you found them.

    Clean up your own mess.

    Don’t take things that aren’t yours.

    Say you’re sorry when you hurt somebody.

    Wash your hands before you eat.

    Flush.

    Warm cookies and cold milk are good for you.

    Live a balanced life—learn some and think some and draw and paint and sing and dance and play and work every day some.

    Take a nap every afternoon.

    When you go out into the world, watch out for traffic, hold hands, and stick together.

    Wonder. Remember the little seed in the Styrofoam cup: The roots go down and the plant goes up and nobody really knows how or why, but we are all like that.

    Goldfish and hamsters and white mice and even the little seed in the Styrofoam cup—they all die. So do we.

    And then remember the Dick-and-Jane books and the first word you learned—the biggest word of all—LOOK.

    Everything you need to know is in there somewhere. The Golden Rule and love and basic sanitation. Ecology and politics and equality and sane living.

  60. Bin Ismail

    @moniems (October 19, 2010 at 8:13 pm)

    “Why kill?”

    “…their (Muslims’) ulema would be the the worst of all creatures beneath the membrane of heaven…” [Muhammad the messenger of God, ref: Mishkaat, Kanzul Ummaal]

  61. Usman

    @Humanity – I have to assume you are joking.

    I see there is no let up in the theological arguments – slightly disappointing.

  62. Amaar

    @Milestogo
    The message of Muhammad of forbearance, mercy and kindness is alive and well. And the Ahmadiyya Muslim community represents his message and will keep going regardless of how many are killed.

  63. Amaar

    …’of its numbers’ are killed

  64. Hameed

    Hardliners call for deaths of Surrey Muslims
    Link: independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/hardliners-call-for-deaths-of-surrey-muslims-2112268.html

  65. John

    @Amaar – why do you even dignify milestogo with a response let him continue on his own hateful journey.