State of Denial And Apologetic Defense Continues……

By Raza Habib Raja

 The attacks on the Sufi Shrine

The horrific details of the attacks on the Sufi shrine of Hazrat Ali Hajvery (also known as Data Gunj Baksh) are beginning to settle in. Terrorist have now struck in the middle of the monument of a tolerant mystic version of Islam. As expected the condemnation is widespread but as usual accusation is misplaced. While going through various websites, I came to know (without surprise of course) that the Pakistani public was generally pointing fingers at the “usual suspect”: United States of America. In fact Yahoo News had made it one of its main page stories that Pakistanis were blaming USA for the attacks at the holy shrine of Hazrat Ali Hajvery.

An interesting development was that Tehrik-i-Taliban Pakistan (TTP) was quick to deny that it was behind it. Some of the Pakistanis are actually using that denial as a proof that foreign powers are behind this blast. The irony is that the same public which is ready to believe the current denial of TTP does not believe when the same TTP claims responsibility!!!! Its really ironic that when TTP claims responsibility for every blast, we think it is a grand conspiracy and when it denies involvement, we are ready to believe!!

No matter what kind of evidence is presented , our public’s response always end up being broadly under either of the two categories: outright denial according to which it is a grand conspiracy of the West; and apologetic defense where the attacks are construed as the reaction of USA’s presence in Afghanistan and its other atrocities. While the later response is less absurd but is equally dangerous as it creates a soft corner for the monsters instead of much needed revulsion. And furthermore it makes it even more difficult to understand how literal Wahabi version of Islam is creating havoc with our faith.

 Both the responses are slightly variant outcomes of the same mindset. One has to just have a critical approach to bring out the absurdities in both the largely held point of views.

First let’s take conspiracy theories. Muslim world in general and the Pakistan’s educated public in particular, truly excel in the art of coming up with amazingly complex conspiracy theories. According to these conspiracy theories everything in Pakistan, particularly disruptive things, are planned in Washington and with active consultation of Israel and India. The theories display amazing combination of permanence and progressiveness. Permanence is shown in the eventual blame which keeps affixed on USA and progressiveness is in the interpretation of changing facts and ground realities where it is amended in fantastic ways to reach the same conclusion. . Consider this: In 1990s the entire public and media were praising Taliban. When Clinton attacked Osama’s bases through cruise missiles in late 1990s, Nawaz Sharif almost lost his government and had to bring “shariah” laws to survive. At that point Taliban were heroes and robin hoods which had defied the “imperialist” USA. Then 9/11 happened. All the media was busy absolving Osama of terrorism and I remember the title of a lead English weekly magazine” Guilty unless proved Innocent”. Then Osama on video accepted responsibility and suddenly the very same media started branding him an agent of USA. After 9/11 whatever happened whether in Pakistan (multiple suicide attacks and Benazir’s assassination), India (Mumbai bomb blasts and attacks in November 2008) and UK (7/7 attacks), was interpreted as US conspiracy to blame Taliban and Pakistan with the eventual aim to take control of nuclear arsenal. In the past we have just kept on changing spins to be consistent with our preconceived conclusion. Just a chronological arrangement, such as above, is enough to show how absurd these theories are!

But what may be the reason for this? The reasons in my opinion are manifold and some are imbedded in our cognitive framework while rest are the outcome of international events and the actual behaviour of foreign players.

First of all, conspiracy theories appeal to our fundamental and deeply held conviction that a Muslim cannot do anything which would bring a bad name to Islam and lead to adverse consequences to the Muslim community. Moreover, apparently the more fundamentalist you are in your appearance, harder it is for the public to actually believe that you are capable of these actions. This may explain why it was difficult for the public to believe that Taliban were behind anything and all was US propaganda. And it also makes sense as to why they are now interpreted as “agents” or bifurcated between “good” and “bad” Taliban once it has become clear bombers are indeed Muslims. Now according to our media “experts” there are some bad Taliban who have been bought over by Western powers and they are very different from “good” Taliban such as Mullah Omar.

 Secondly, we always link consequences with origination. Since terrorism “benefits” West because it defames Islam and gives them a justification to retaliate, therefore in our logic it must have been solely planned by them. In our country, the nuclear issue is extremely sensitive and somehow or the other assumed a central place due to our inherent insecurities and also crisis of identity. Moreover, the nuclear arsenal is perhaps the only thing which actually elevates Pakistan to at least a factor to reckon with at the global stage. It’s no wonder that every terrorist activity is then conveniently linked with the global conspiracy to destabilize Pakistan with the ultimate objective of taking hold of nuclear arsenal. Now there is merit in this thought that Pakistan’s nuclear arsenal would always be giving the US and the West sleepless nights but to give these amazing spins that al-Qaeda is planted by USA and suicide attacks are planned and carried by USA alone is really mind boggling and moreover self contradictory. Because if Al-Qaeda and Taliban are indeed planted then military action in FATA would actually eliminate these agents and deprive US of the justification to take military action to neutralize the nuclear assets.

Thirdly, the conspiracy theories also owe their existence (though not the extent of their weirdness) to foreign powers’ actual way of dealing which has always been oppressive and suspicious. The flimsy case of war in Iraq has merely strengthened and worst still apparently provided some sellable legitimacy to the conspiracy theorists. Whenever there is any question to authenticity to fantastic theories, the Iraq war and US general way of handling crisis is cited as justification. As a result self contradictory theories which brand militants as US agents and yet resist government crackdown by labelling it as US war, find acceptability in the public.

Now regarding the second and increasingly widely held point of view that terrorism is merely a result of American presence. I will ask simple questions here. If tomorrow USA leaves Afghanistan will this extremism stop? Secondly, if everything is just a reaction, what will explain the Punjabi Taliban? After all we can link Afghan and Tribal area Taliban with this “revenge” approach but what about the variety which has been creating havoc in Lahore. In fact after continuous denial, finally the Punjab Government is partially admitting that they have a local version of the monsters.

Now if you think that if drone attacks kill people in tribal areas and as a reaction some fanatics in Punjab are getting aggrieved and blowing themselves in Holy Shrines, then clearly there is some logical fallacy in your thinking pattern. Moreover, even if one believes this “reaction” theory, is the killing of innocent MUSLIMS justified? Why are we so naïve that we cannot see this obvious truth? Why we are ready to condemn drone attacks which are much more targeted and totally unable to condemn when far more people are killed by monsters like Taliban?

 Unless and until we are able to condemn the monsters we will never be able to win this war against extremism. We need to feel revulsion against them and we will only feel it when we start looking more critically at things. Any society has to indulge into an honest intellectual discourse at the time of crisis. Unfortunately, we as a nation not only resist it, but are completely blinded to our own faults. Unless and until we indulge in serious self introspection, we will continue to fall into this mayhem. We need to encourage tolerance and intellectual openness, without which there will be no room for a pluralistic culture and a milder version of our great religion.

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52 Comments

Filed under Pakistan

52 responses to “State of Denial And Apologetic Defense Continues……

  1. Amaar

    While the conspiracy theorists senselessly claim that India, Israel and USA are involved I ask:

    Was it a Prataap Singh from India or some Moshe from Israel or a Joe from US who boarded flight to Pakistan, lodged in hotel waziristan and came to Lahore for the this act?

    The lunacy and stupidity of such people is very outrageous who belie their own eyes and senses. I would hold them complicit in such crimes for avoiding and hiding the real issue.

  2. Syed

    These conspiracy theorists would blame Israel and India for Karbala if that was possible. While simplicity in the past can be considered a simple mistake, in the present situation ‘a Muslim cannot do this’ is a most lousy and dumbfounding pretext to absolve the sins of Mullahs.

  3. YLH

    It is an excessively stupid ailment … One should ask these buggers to give proof for their insinuations about India and Israel or shut up. It is not one holds the brief for India or Israel but these two serve as bogeys for these hardened militant groups to deflect everything to.

    Where India is involved plausibly one does not shy away from saying so but for god’s sake …it is our own people, the monster we prepared in Afghan war and then discredited Kashmir’s freedom movement with. Time to take out South Punjab’s militant hideouts we should have taken out on 27th November 2008.

  4. shiv

    Perhaps the most serious issue for Pakistan is that it has split up into multiple power centers, none of which can exert total control over the geographcial area that is called “Pakistan”. The fact that many of these power centers is heavily armed is an added reason for concern. Each group exerts control over some segments of the population and over some geographical areas.

    No central authority exists that can cow down everyone enough to abide by a single set of rules for the entire nation. Only the army had the popularity to control the entire nation – but unfortunately for Pakistan – the army, with its contempt for the admittedly fat and corrupt civilian rulers itself never managed to bring order into Pakistan. for too long the ethos of the Pakistan army had centered around foreign conquest – wars with India, war against the Soviets and “strategic depth” in Afghanistan. A common set of rules was never imposed on Pakistanis and it was perhaps assumed that Islam might somehow provide that common set of rules. But that never encouraged people to pay income tax or work for the “nation”.

    And it is absolutely correct to say that nuclear weapons have added a new dimension to Pakistan. It is accepted that the weapons are under safe custody of the Pakistan army. The US wants to see it continue that way and has managed to coopt India into seeing things that way. This means that both India and the US will cooperate to ensure the survival of the Pakistan army without damaging it. The US (currently) has no incentive to damage the Pakistani army, but India does. And India will maintain a hands off approach from attacking and mauling the strength and reputation of the Pakistan army in exchange for US pressure to stop sub-conventional (terrorist) attacks on India.

    This leaves Pakistan more or less rudderless – with different power centers vying for space and control. Whether Pakistani groups and entities are convinced of it or not, it appears that a whole lot of American think tanks and an increasing number of Indians are convinced that the only way forward for Pakistan is development, infrastructure and education of a huge mass of Pakistanis that have been left out. And eventually democracy. This development cannot come with foreign aid alone. It can only come with trade and the single unavoidably big area of trade for Pakistan is India. All dreams of an economy based on transit of oil/gas is subject to peace in Afghanistan and stability in Pakistan. And those goals lie in the future.

    Trade with India will mean goodwill and it will inevitably entail Indian influence in education, healthcare and culture/entertainment/fashion in Pakistan aimed at reducing anti-India feelings. Despite the denials I hear I can quote a large number of sources that speak of a hatred and/or fear of India among Pakistanis as expressed to various people. This will have to be removed by some means for the future of the subcontinent in the long term and the future of Pakistan in the medium term.

  5. Chote Miyan

    ylh,
    “Where India is involved plausibly one does not shy away from saying..”

    And where are we involved? Could you please throw some light? I keep hearing this but never really got a satisfactory answer.
    Thanks.

  6. pankaj

    Dear shiv
    The measures you have suggested to change pakistan are next to impossible.

    why because so many vested interest groups will have to give up their powers ,wealth and privileges.

    The three major power centres are
    1. Army and civilian bureaucracy
    2. The Rich elite ,landlords, business men and
    all current Members of parliament ie politicians

    These two are known as the “establishment”

    3.The religious forces who are gaining strength due to poverty ,inflation and other economic problems.Religious forces are very close to the army.

    The terrorists are the military arm of the religious
    forces,and a strategic asset for the the military to be used against India.
    Only when they attempt to takeover the country,will the Army confront them

    The governance will continue to swing from
    Democracy and military rule
    The judiciary and middle classes really want change to happen but right now they are too weak
    to bring about real change.

    Right now judiciary is battling the politicians while middle classes are worried about the economy and security.
    Politicians also want to enjoy power quickly,ie take turns, ie PPP today and PML – N after mid term elections because the army will come back .

    As far as improving relations with India is concerned the army will not allow it to happen

  7. ved

    If for a moment we believe that it is the work of India, Israel and US, but matter of fact is that they’re not coming or sending their man to kill innocent people, it is their own brethren who kills them. Public must accept this realty that they can not pick and choose killers to suit their likes and dislikes.
    A Muslims or for that matter any one Hindus, Christians, Jews had killed their own coreligionist whenever and wherever political compulsion demanded. History will tell that it has happened and it is still happening.

  8. Octavian

    The conspiracy claptrap is pretty disturbing and irrational. It does not pass muster when scrutinized by using cutting edge methods such as, well, facts and common sense.

    However, what is truly of concern is the staunch refusal of the Pakistani qaum to face up to this, and actively pursue these criminals. Right after the attack I saw someone interview a mullah on Geo. The mullah condemned the attack (good!) and then promptly blamed “outside forces” (wtf? How did Colombo figure that out?).

    Ironically, even the army has pointed out that all terrorist activity in Pakistan is emanating from the tribal areas – our own people are murdering us. Just go to TED talks and look at the work of Sharmeen Obaid on the training of suicide bombers (horrific, I promise you).

    The Government, PTV, Army need to blitz the populace and really go for the jugular. Fatwa upon boatload of fatwas need to be issued, Quranic reasoning given, free ice cream distributed whatever it takes to get through to the numbskulls that our greatest enemy lies within us now!

  9. Raza

    @Octavian

    Yes it is our complete refusal to say things even it is extremely obvious which is causing problems. The most holy shrine has been bombed and we are taking comforts that TTP THIS time has denied responsibility. Wow! What happened when they were claiming responsibility? Then we were spinning and saying that either it was a grand conspiracy or coming up with “reaction” defense.

  10. @Chote Miyan

    “Where India is involved plausibly one does not shy away from saying..”

    And where are we involved? Could you please throw some light? I keep hearing this but never really got a satisfactory answer.

    1. There are four standard reasons trotted out, four standard denials follow, and nobody gets anywhere.
    2. These are far too well known to require a repetition, unless you have some motive for raising this point here, now.
    3. Suppose for a moment that these were unknown. This thread has nothing to do with those issues anyway. What are you setting out to achieve?

  11. Raza

    @Vajra

    You are right Sir!
    However although India is still being blamed by conspiracy theorists but the main “villain” is now USA.
    India is now considered a “junior” partner in crime by these conspiracy theorists.

  12. yasserlatifhamdani

    Chote miyan,

    Not right now. I have a detailed answer… but I don’t want to divert from the actions of these Mullah-fascists.

  13. Bin Ismail

    Dear Alice in Wonderland,

    Please come out of Wonderland and appreciate the following realities of Planet Earth:

    1. The perpetrators of such crimes are no longer angels, ghosts or jinns from the realm of the unknown. They are humans – “Pakistani” by nationality and “Muslim” by faith.

    2. You don’t need to ship in Indians or Israelis or Americans to bomb a shrine in Lahore, when you can buy more-than-willing volunteers, for the same job, from the local market.

  14. An ordinary man

    Let us accept that unless we eradicate the evil within, nothing is going to change. Blaming outsiders all the time has resulted in a continued oversight on our side of the problem. We badly need a Mustafa Kemal Ataturk.

  15. neel123

    @ Shiv and Pankaj,

    Pakistan’s problem is more fundamental than that.
    Pakistan was created to be a home land for the muslims of India, based on Islam.

    The struggle in Pakistan has always been about who is the rightful owner of Islam in Pakistan, the politicians, the Army, or the mullahs. This struggle remained unresolved.

    This struggle has turned Pakistan into a theocratic state, now being hijacked by the perverted interpretation of Islam.

    Here is an audio of a recent speech in a Canadian forum from M J Akbar, the renowned Indian muslim intellectual and media personality :

    http://www.idrc.ca/en/ev-130356-201-1-DO_TOPIC.html

    It says all …….

  16. nasir jan

    Wake up everyone – Pakis enjoy killing muslims! – and the population / government is complacent in this unforgivable crime. This will not stop until all the madrahssas are shut down and all mullahs with a warped sense of ideology are exterminated

  17. Syed

    @BJ Kumar

    It is an insult and an outrage to associate Jinnah with this carnage. By the same token, Gandhi, Nehru and Patel can also be held responsible for the genocide of the Muslims in Punjab during partition.

  18. BJ Kumar

    EDITED (Dear BJKumar you are not welcome to post here because you are a crook who is incapable of being honest. -YLH)

  19. Raza

    @ Bj kumar

    I do not see relevance of the most recent carnage with Jinnah. I really do not know as to why his reference is being given here

  20. Raza

    @ bj Kumar

    I will disagree with you here. I am no ultra national or right winger by any stretch of imagination, but Jinnah was not what you are suggesting.

    I think, though I am be wrong here, that you are trying to lure Yasir Hamdani here into some sort of confrontation!!

    Any how I wont debate this with you because I mean really this is rather fantastic that Jinnah was some kind of a murderer or instigated violence for political ends.

  21. An ordinary man

    What the heck!

    Pakistan exists on the map. That is a reality. What are you Indi Jerks trying to achieve by referring back to the past. We are tying to look at what can be done to save our country’s innocent populace from these jokers and your comments are not just irrelevant but an attemp of adding salt to injury. LAY OFF you “bharati rhakshists” and leave us on our own.

  22. An ordinary man

    TYPO SPOTTED…. I meant: adding insult to injury!

  23. An ordinary man

    So what? So this that if the only thing you have inside is venom, then keep your @$$h0l€ (aka mouth) shut.

  24. Kaalket

    Change,transition is always painful but gains are multiple. What is considred violence today will soon be eulogized as holly struggle to bring back the pristine teachings of 7th centruy Islam followed by its glory. People who knows and understand realize Pakistan is the future of Islam, new Medina and the intellectual centre of whole Ummah as well human civilization . The success and failure of Pakistan is the success and failure of Islam. Its imperative that all impurities must be expunged to lay down the path to paradise with current Jihad. Think of the future mundane and spiritual benefits , the current sacrifices are well worth.MMI or Mecca Medina and Islambad will be 3 beacons of humanity , the centre of gravity of the known universe on sheer strength of deen, Iman, mental prowess and compasisonate nature. Lets not deny these facts .

  25. Tilsim

    BJ Kumar

    The events of direct action day were indeed painful. However, to bring up a presposterous analogy like you have done to the current terrorism in Pakistan, you do yourself no service and it is a reflection of the mindless hatred and bigotry that is bred in the hearts of otherwise intelligent people. I think you should free yourself from such thinking and look at things afresh. You will grow.

  26. Raza

    @Tilsim

    I agree fully here. I know BJ Kumar’s style from chowk.com and it has always been the same. Drawing irrelevant analogies to score points against Pakistan.

    Rightwingers will always be rightwingers.

  27. Bin Ismail

    Gentlemen, let’s be more focused and more objective. With reference to these last few comments, I would like to draw the attention of all of you to the following:

    1. Islam cannot be judged by the actions of those who are known as Muslims, for the simple reason that while a Muslim has all the right to call himself a Muslim, it does not naturally follow that he is in reality practicing the teachings of Islam. The same rule applies to all religions.

    2. Jinnah cannot be judged by the actions of those who acted against his will, following their own will. Specifically, when we consider cases of mob-mentality, we must not lose sight of the fact that a mob, once provoked and aroused, behaves on instinct, not on instructions. This too, is a rule that is applicable to adherents of all religions and political philosophies.

    3. The direct action day was originally meant to be day of speeches and peaceful processions. There were provocations both ways and clashes started. Clashes turned into riots. At the end of the day, the Muslim casualties outnumbered the Muslims.

    4. It would not have made much sense for Jinnah to apologize for something, he was not responsible for.

    5. the topic of discussion originally was “State of denial and apologetic defense continues”. Let’s contribute to the original agenda.

    Regards.

  28. ved

    @Kaalket
    Door ke dhol suhawane hote hai. The sounds which come from a distance always feels nice.
    The middle period which you want to live with is filled with violence,struggle, war, murder, treachery and domination of one power to other. It never stopped in all over Medieval period. When Caliphate of Baghdad was dominant only Baghdad was at peace, else around it was struggling to even live with. Likewise in India when Mughals were at peak, the peace only lies around Delhi and its surroundings but not in all over Mughal empire. So it is very naive on you to think to bring that period and think for peace all over world. You know “Guzara hua Zamana aata nahi dobara” The time gone by never comes, So be with time and change with time, thence only your voice can be listened here.

  29. Raza

    @
    bin Ismail

    Thanks that post was much needed as the discussion was going off track…

    The topic is the need to indulge in self introspection and to shake ourselves of this state of denial. Likewise to understand that monsters should not be given apologetic defense also

  30. DN

    It is true what you say regarding the Pakistani mindset, however certain points need clarification:
    . How do you explain the analogy between the attacks in Pakistan and Iraq
    . if Taliban’s presence has been there in tribal areas some while, why is the intensity increasing all of a sudden
    . Lastly, if the US is ready to talk to ‘Good Taliban’, why does it think that operartion is mandatory and drone attacks cannot be stopped.
    I would say that our present situation is a mixture of both. The harvest that we have reaped over the years was just about ripe, like a disaster waiting to happen. The ‘outside’ forces are adding fuel to fire. They just have to pull the trigger on a bomb ready to explode. Let us not forget that the Taliban are not just a religious entity. They are an amalgamation of a multitude of factors: poverty, uneducation, deprivation and war.

  31. Bin Ismail

    Sorry for the typo error in my last post. It should be read as:

    3. The direct action day….. At the end of the day, the Muslim casualties outnumbered the [non-] Muslim casualties.

  32. Raza

    @DN

    I agree that the situation is a mixture of both but an overwhelming majority thinks that its just “them”. Since I try to debunk that extreme view therefore my focus is more on that element.
    Analogy between Iraq and Pakistan? I do not understand as to what you mean here?

  33. Jamal

    Pakistan: The crisis of Punjab — Guardian Editorial

    No one in Pakistan can tolerate a policy of accommodating jihadis, or keep them as backroom allies in the mistaken belief that this is the best way of containing them

    Link: guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2010/jul/03/pakistan-nawaz-sharif-jihad-taliban

  34. Bin Ismail

    @BJ Kumar (July 4, 2010 at 2:10 am)

    Indeed, introspection must begin with oneself. As for the politicized clergy, they are capable of misinterpreting just about anything.

  35. BJ Kumar

    EDITED

  36. Ibn-e-Maryam

    This is very typical of our nation. Blame the Indians, blame the Israelis, blame the US, blame this one, blame that one. We, as a nation, have continually ‘passed the buck’. We need to take responsibility of our own actions.

  37. Midfield Dynamo

    It is indeed Pakistan’s responsibility to put the house in order, should there be an outside hand its local connection must be severed. Locals serving foreign interests need to be eliminated. To begin with there has to be unification amongst ourselves. If we are proud of our identification this side of the border our soul will remain intact and the bad elements will surface automatically or otherwise fall in line obviating the need for their eradication.
    However, should we continue to connive against the innocent and oppress the weak, the problem will continue to magnify. It is therefore to clean the slate and make a fresh beginning. Our inherent fear THAT DOING SO WILL DESTABILIZE THE COUNTRY is in fact a ruse employed by vested interests who want to maintain status quo for self serving motives.

  38. Sehar Tauqeer

    1. Secterain Terrorism was remained in Pakistan from 1979 onwards when Iranian Revolution came and Khoemieni tried to export this into Iraq, Saudia,Pakistan and other countries, 1979 Attack and Hostage of Kaaba , then Saddam attacked Iran to stop Iraq’s Shia Majority to stand against him , Saudia ,Bahrain,Egypt and all Arab Countries funded Iraq to make it War between Arab-o-Ajam , objectionable literature was brought into Pakistan , Saudia and Iran made Pakistan , a new place for their Proxy Wars,Zia with help of Deobandi Scholars created Sipah-e-Sahaba to counter any Uprise of Shia minority new vigour of ‘revolution’ inside Pakistan , Iran funded Sipah-e-Muhammad to export Revolution here and create anarchy. Counselate Sadiq Ganji who was killed in Lahore by Riaz Basra and Akram Lahori was used to export Literature againt Sahaba(ra) , War was originally of Iraq and Iran , Arab Countries , CIA and Mossad were backing different players aat different times like 1986 Weapons which Iran was secretly taking from Isarel ! But all these countries made Pakistan their Proxy War Theatre, ruined its social,cultural and tolerance fibre where shias/sunnis werer living side by side for centuries celebrating Muharram together in Indo Pak region and mutual respect. Poverty , poor literacy rates, joblessness specially in Southern Punjab Saraiki Belt and Central Punjab like Jhang , Toba Tek Singh etc became manpower recuruiting areas and ruined our country

    2. From 1980-2001 , thousands of people from both sides killed mostly Shias specially in Karachi where 81 doctors and other professional killed but in all these years not a single Shrine was attacked by any group.Not even a single attack of any Mazar, Shrine or Spirtual Place.Then came 9/11 when 19 Terrorists out of 14 were from Saudia killed 2500+ innocents to take revenge of US policies in Gulf .There still exists some foolish who believe this to be a Conspiracy Theory of Mosaad+ CIA +Yahood-Hanood-Nasara classical combination which is by definition,responsible for everything bad in this world they should kindly see this prog of Saleem Safi ,Hamid Mir and Raheemullah Yousafzai to know who did 9/11 , may these foolish get a life afterwards !

    For All Foolish : (Saleem Safi + Hamid Mir+Raheemullah Yusufzai)

    http://pkpolitics.com/2009/08/06/jirga-6-august-2009/

    Thousands of Arabs + top Taliban Leaders after selling 700+ Pakistanis innocents who entered Afghanistan to do ‘Jihaad’ against US were first betrayed by Ameer-ul-Heroin who ran on CD-70 keeping Pakistanis hostage to Northern Alliance who killed these Pakistanis even when they were weeping shouting,holding Qurans in handsbegging for mercy to tell them they are muslims and come here to fight US then Mulla Omer top Commander Mulla Dadullah sold 2000+ Pakistanis to Rasheed Dostam allowing all Talibans to leave safely and those bastards dogs after selling these Pakistanis ran and Dostam killed these Pakistanis in Steel Tankers from heat/suffocation in Shabarghan…

    3. These Arabs came in Pakistan tribal Area in early 2002 and 2003 in thousands of numbers were prepared fully to this war which they themselves brought here intentionally as their greatest supporter Hamid Mire exposed in this program and their whole plan was to defeat the US by a Cassical Guerilla Fight with base camp in Pakistan Tribal Areas as they did just 15 years ago with Russians making Waziristan as Islamic Emirate in early 2004 implementing so called Shriat,Taxation and parallel Government System in Bajaur , Waziristan so to melt local tribals and blackmail them in name of Islam, terror tactics by open slaughtering innocents and FC personals to terrify locals, blasting all schools irrespective girls and boys to get illiterate but vigorous brainwashed man-power , as no schools, no education,no enlightening of vision and personality and just remain Zombies and Hassan Bin Sabah Followers to get Firdous-e-Baree and 72 Hoors etc as Education develop Mind and Personality and Brainwashed Zombies demand blasting schools,education centres as they did in Afghanistan , as they did in Swat,Mehmand,Bajaur,Orakzai and same they doing in Baluchistan killing women professors, university teachers so that educational meltdown would bring them thousands of jobless youth to join them in their Jihaad against Hazara Shias of Quetta , Punjabi Settlers and Taliban Shura which want to separate Baluchistan specially Quetta from Pakistan.

    4. Takfeeri Arabs from Saudia ,Egypt,Libya , Somalia ,Iraq,Jordan brought with them Takfeeri Islam and their Imam was Dr.Aimen Zahawari who killed Abdullah Azzam as he opposed his Takfeeri Views to kill every innocent Muslim declaring him Kafir and Infidel which come in their line of Ideology.First Suicidal Attack was killing of Ahmed Shah Masood just 2 days before 9/11 to counter US+Northern Alliance joint move when US finally invade Afghanistan , these Followers of Abdul Wahab and Syed Qutb Ideology declaring everyone as Kafir,Biddati and Mushrik killed 700+ Afridi and Mehsood and other Maliks and Khans of Pakistani Tribal Areas from 2002-2005 to get complete grip on these areas , then turned towards FC , brutally slaughtered them in hundreds of no. to paralyse security structure and when musharraf finally pushed Pak Armed Division in to these areas which they could not resist with full fledge Armed Attack , these shrewed and cheaters did 4 Agreements and every time betrayed , came back, reposiotioned and regrouped themselves and some Traitors like Baighairat Disesl Smugglers of JUI-F like Land Grabber Fazlu and few traitors sitting in Media every time gave assurance to Army from their side and betrayed their own Country and Forces.

    5. In all Shia Sunni Violence from 1980-2001, there was not a single attack on Shrines but under the influence of these Takfeeri Arabs , Talibans who were hard-core Hanafi destroyed Bamaian Statues in Afghanistan despite of appeals from whole world and Pakistan, these Takfiri Arabs when came Pakistan in 2002 onwards and infiltrating in Pakistani Tribal Areas and finally into mainstream areas , they send local brainwashed youth to destroy Bari Imam, Rehman Baba, In Swat the same Arab Takfeeri Ideology humiliated Grave by hanging him from tree, in Buner and finally two men send by the same Takfeeri Al-Qaeda blasted Syed Ali Hajveri Shrine , a symbol of Love of Humanity for 1000 years where Hindu Rajas , Muslims , Sikhs , British ruled in all these years not dared to disrecpect a single brick of this place , these Takfeeri after killing 1000s of innocent Shia children, women and men with Petrol Tankers in Iraq, burning them with Chemical Trucks in Police Stations and Markets not even spared the Holy Shrine of Sahabi Hazrat Abbas (ra) , brother of Imam Hussain(ra) , not spared Imam Moosa Kazim Shrine in Kazmia , near Baghdad, not spared Imam Abu Hanifa Shrine in Azmia and attacked it with Rockets , not spared tens of Shrines in Somalia and destroyed them where they played the same old game of Anarchy, Bloodshed as they doing in Pakistan.

    Plan is simple , the same and old Classical Formula , Death by a Thousand Cuts, the same which Bonapartists Wet Dreamers of ISI used to do in Afghanistan once and now Talibans of Afhanistan+Al-Qaeda with help of Lashkra-i-Jhangvi,Jaish-e-Muhammad , Harkutul-Ansar , Jihad-ul-Alalimi etc soing the same in Pakistan. Red Fort Conquerers with help of Lashkrai Tayyaba ruined the whole generations in Pakistani Universities specially UET and PU of Lahore and one of the Lahore FIA building attack was palnner was Faisalabad Engineer from same UET.Hafiz Saeed and all those still come on the roads to blackmail the youth now in name of Water Crisis b/w India and Pakistan to plan another Mumbai Attack to bring 2 Nuclear Countries to War,Hatred Lessons still going on in Universities against Ahmedis,Shias, Sufia declaring them Biddati,Mushrik and Shrines as Somnat kai Mandar etc, Foreign Investment is already decreased by 60%, GDP is 2.8% , Indusrial Units are almost collapsed, Suicides rates have been quadruppled, Poverty crossing all barriers, jobless-ness is on the highest , shattered youth without any work is the easiest Fodder of these Banned Organizations, Plan is to paralyse the Government Fuctioning as they did it in Iraq , Somalia, Yemen and in Afghanistan and finally break Pakistan from Bauchistan side through BLA, in Karachi by killing Shias and Sunni Tehrik to create religious and ethnic anarchy by same Alqaeda+TTP.Traitors sitting in Media in form of psuedo Intellectuals and Anchors like Hamid Mir, Irfan Siddique, Haroon Rasheed,Shireen Mazari, Orya Maqbool Jaan, are fully supporting them to turn Pakistan into Islamic Wahabi Takfeeri Republic of Pakistan by 1000 cuts in all spheres and spectrums of Life including Religion,Economy,social,cultural life etc

  39. Raza

    @Dewalker

    Another irrelevant remark! I really do not know how this is linked with what happened at Holy Shrine!

  40. Ummi

    Raza Habib Raja,

    your Dad sitting in Washington happily embracing all kind of Talibans and Jihadis and here you are singing same old song.

    don’t you have access to newspapers in your pind or your ignorance does not let you to keep an eye on current affairs?

  41. DeWalker

    Raza,

    Hardly irrelevant. The problem is your founding fathers, as in the nations, played up violence as the solution to intractable problems, and all sorts of leaders therafter, from politicians to mullahs have routinely asked for muslims to be ready for jihad. I go to any pakistani webboard, and the amount of hate, and personal anger that is visible is staggering. On Indian boards, while nasty words are exchanged, no Indian personally claims the authority to wage war on his own. On the other hand, on Pakistani boards even after the Ahmedi attacks, there were people discussing whether Ahmedis were wajib ur qatl or not!

    So the point, my friend, is simple, unless you detoxify your society of this barbarous jihad mentality, which brings in a religious war dimension to everything, things will not move ahead. Otherwise everyone will claim the prerogative of the Govt to do violence, in a normal nation state, only the elected Govt is legally allowed to visit violence on those who violate secular law or for protecting the state. In Pakistan, many common citizens have a state of mind, that violence is A-ok.

    Another thing is to kick out all the hoary ghosts of the past, I for one dont look upto Gandhi and find him a flawed and quite a damaging individual, apart from his good points. But liberal Pakistanis refuse to even acknowledge that their greats like Jinnah too had feet of clay, and did unconscionable things in the pursuit of power. Do your own thing and do not bother about the Jinnahs or the others, or you too will be hostage to their foibles.

    Peace, brother.

  42. Raza

    @dewalker

    Have you even read the article? I do not think so. You just saw the discussion thread, saw direct action day and just posted.
    This article is on my nations’s state of denial and it is severly critical of ourselves. And you can actually see host of other articles to see how critcal i am of my nation. And I am not exaggerating here.

    Just go to search option and type my name and read earlier articles also.

    So the argument that I can not see flaw with my nation is, with due apologies, not correct.
    The issue is that unlike some people I will not blame those who dies in 1948 for something which happened in 2010.
    Those who blew themselves at holy shrine were not trying to emulate Jinnah.

    And yes, since you are referrign that most of the Indians can see flaw with themselves, would you please reproduce soem of the stuff which you may have written which is critical of indian behaviour.

    Even the interacts if not articles.

    I can actually reproduce at least 5 to 6 articles which are heavily critical of my own nation’s mindset. But since you are claiming that compared to me, you are much more self critical. ok lets see it.

    I am waiting

  43. Sadia Hussain

    The attack on Data Darbar reminds us that we need to condemn all acts of violence as no one is excluded from the brutalities of Taliban. It is time that we put an end to all militant fractions, they only forces who should carry a gun need to be our law enforcement agencies.

  44. Sher Zaman

    A lot of responsibility falls on the shoulders of the people of this country; we have been quick in making one faction good and the other bad. We need to draw rational conclusions about who actually is ruining the peace of our society and then take concrete actions to defend our claims.

  45. Shah Zaman

    Some pearls of Maulana Maudoodi’s *Divine* wisdom…..

    “Human relations and associations are so integrated that no state can have complete freedom of action within its own principles, unless those same principles are in force in a neighboring country. Therefore, Muslim groups will not be content with the establishment of an Islamic state in one area alone. Depending on their resources, they should try to expand in all directions. On one hand, they will spread their ideology and on the other they will invite people of all nations to accept their creed, for salvation lies only in it. If their Islamic state has power and resources it will fight and destroy non Islamic governments and establish Islamic states in their place”
    [Maulana Maududi: Haqiqat-i-Jihad (Lahore: Taj Company Ltd, 1964), 64; emphasis is mine]

  46. DeWalker

    Raza,

    You miss the context. I just pointed out that my comments about Direct Action and others were very relevant to the topic at hand, given how Pakistan has internalized a culture of violence, thanks to a series of religious, cultural and leadership issues. I did not say you dont realise this, but merely pointing to the overall issue at hand. Even on this board, which is a breath of fresh air versus the likes of Pakdef etc there is still a strong sense of occasional disbelief from posters who are unable to understand the reality, despite what you or other commentators post.

  47. @DeWalker

    There is nothing wrong with PakDef. Its moderators are liberal, by and large; I could name names but that would be invidious. As for the general membership, the fanboys on both Pakistani and Indian sides need to be euthanasised, to ensure that their genes do not continue to be in the pool, but it is two sets, not one: it indeed takes two to tango.

    If anything, the Chinese and Bangladeshi contingent are worse; PDF have progressively got rid of their Chinese pests, and those remaining are generally sober citizens, who have not however lost their willingness to test every boundary, including some that we never thought we had. The Bangladeshis are decent folks, just like the others, except that three of them are incredibly cartoonish. It is difficult to believe that they are not spoofing themselves.

    For an Indian who stays clear of current politics and religious affairs, and confines himself to recent history and sociology, the water’s fine.

  48. @De Walker

    To continue, this is not about PakDef after all, this is about PTH.

    You are aware that this is a ‘free’ forum; no membership required to post. Anyone who wants to, can post; everyone usually does. It is obvious that there will be wild-eyed gibberish emerging from such unfetterred interaction.

    Let us put it to the test. Could you present a sample of irresponsible writing or response from a regular of PTH, which you would deem offensive? And don’t please fish out YLH’s exuberant losses of temper. Those are under privilege; do please pick some other example if you really want to drive any point home.

  49. shiv

    Hindu philosophy (and Buddhist and Jain philosophy as well I think) speak of detachment as a means of coping with the waves of sorrow and joy that life throws at anyone.

    “Detachment” is an idea that is exemplified by the analogy of ownership of a shirt. If I own the shirt and it tears, I am sorry. If my friend tears his shirt, I feel for him, but the intensity of my sorrow is less than if my shirt had torn. But if some unknown passerby rips his shirt – it does not bother me – it may even make me laugh. That is how “detachment” affects people.

    When you do not feel close to something, its loss does not bother you. When Ahmedis and Sufis were killed in Lahore – that was too close for comfort.

    Yesterday, 70 people were killed in Mohmand in a suicide blast. Nobody seems particularly upset.

    Is Mohmand in Pakistan? Is Mohmand detached from Pakistan? Or is Mohmand detached from the minds of Pakistanis who weep when people are killed in Lahore.

  50. Chote Miyan

    Shiv,
    I believe you meant the word indifferent or disinterest, rather than detachment that forms the Buddhist belief. What you have described is not the detachment propagated by Buddhism, or Hinduism, or Jainism.

  51. Bin Ismail

    I would be of the opinion that this has less to do with either detachment or with indifference. This again, is another expression of “denial” – the euphoric belief that “all is well” and “nothing is wrong”. Our media will use apologetic terms such as “extremism” for incidents that are “crimes committed by the clergy”. “Militancy” sounds less blasphemous than say “mullaism”. Ulema who instigate violence openly, will commonly be referred to as “fundamentalists”, a term treated by some as a eulogizing one.

    This attitude of denial has to rectified.