Ahmadiyya Muslim Mosques In Lahore Attacked By Terrorists

By YLH

In this last hour the two main Muslim Ahmadiyya Islamic Mosques have been targetted by terrorists in Lahore.   We all know the crimes for which the Ahmadis must pay:

1. They were actively involved in the creation of Pakistan.

2.  They were actively involved in the development of Pakistan.

3.  They won Pakistan its only Nobel Prize.

4.  Ahmadi Muslims, despite the worst kind of persecution, routinely lay down their lives as soldiers in Pakistan Army.

For these four unpardonable crimes, extremists must kill, maim and blow up Ahmadi Muslims!

Meanwhile militants  from Mansoora are found roaming in all corners of Pakistan.  The same element who have stabbed Pakistan in the back every chance they’ve gotten.

I’ve always maintained the drone attacks are misdirected.  If you really want progress,  Drone attacks must take place on militant hideouts in mainstream Pakistan.

178 Comments

Filed under Pakistan

178 responses to “Ahmadiyya Muslim Mosques In Lahore Attacked By Terrorists

  1. CantDeclareMyName

    I would like to know the opinion of Mr kashif Hafeez on the silent and ongoing murder of Ahamadis in Pakistan? Any links to his articles? Or is he silent on this issue

    What is the opinion of Jamaat-e-Islamic on the gunning down and killing of Ahmadis in typical gangster style? Any interviews of Qazi sahab?

    Regards

    Anonymous sunni Muslim who is afraid to delcare that he has sympathies for Ahamdis

  2. yasserlatifhamdani

    Because Kashif Hafeez Siddiqui is a ——(edited)… He -like the rest of the jamaat e fitna e maududiat – is utterly devoid of sense of fairness, justice and common sense.

    EDITED

  3. mazbut

    The attack on Ahmadiya temples is condemnable but at the same time cursing others is tantamount to spreading more sectarian hatred.

    Praising the Mirzais for what they have or haven’t done for Pakistan doesn’t mean that they are infallible.
    The Constitution declares them as non-Muslims and minority yet they root cause which led to the present attack on their temples seems to be ‘impersonation of Islamic signs and symbols”. How can a non-Muslim call its place of worship as a Mosque??
    No place is a mosque where any Muslim is not allowed to enter and worship. Sadly enough, sectarian divisions among Muslims have barred one Muslim to worship in another Muslims place of worship marked as Imam bargahs , Jama’at Khana, Mosque, etc etc . The present attack seems to occur due to adamancy of Mirzai’s to call their place of worship as Mosque and the objection by all other Muslim sects to that effect. After having invented a prophet of their own they have breached from the Islamic fundamentals and as such ought to refrain from playing with the sentiments of other Muslims by faking Islamic ‘names and symbols’.
    Only this way can they be said to be minding their own business and others minding their own!!

  4. yasserlatifhamdani

    30 pakistanis have been massacred and this ——-is more interested in calling Ahmadi mosques “temples”.

    Shame on your Mazhur.
    *** This Message Has Been Sent Using BlackBerry Internet Service from Mobilink ***

    {Edited for language: YLH, we all share your extreme frustration here. But no foul language on the board. I will delete any language from here on. AZW}

  5. yasserlatifhamdani

    Btw there was no signage whatsoever which described the place a mosque.
    *** This Message Has Been Sent Using BlackBerry Internet Service from Mobilink ***

  6. mazbut

    <<<<<Btw there was no signage whatsoever which described the place a mosque.<<<<<<<<

    I don't need any clarification from you now…go tell this to your father, Raza Rumi.

    Raza, if naked shit is to be hurled on this forum then don't blame me if i switched over to my lingo!!
    I already told you this man of yours is a CURSE and need to be taken care of by you!!

  7. mazbut

    you need to put a strap on his mouth and a —–

    {Edited: Enough of the language Mazbut. I have deleted YLH language. And needless to say I will be more than happy to delete yours too. Post your comments, but watch your language from now on}

  8. yasserlatifhamdani

    {Edited for language}
    You claimed that Ahmadis got bombed because they call their mosque a mosque. The truth is that being law abiding they have never called their mosques mosques.

    You said terrorism against them is justified on this count.

    Madarchod ab yahan post naa karna haramzaday ki aulaad

  9. mazbut

    same to you!!
    If RRumi tells me not to post I will stop. I don’t listen to rabid dogs and cowards like you…. shame on you and your ‘education’ and ‘upbringing’ ….and shame on those who will keep company with you!

  10. Mazbut is correct; firing on Ahmadi worship place could not be appreciated. It should be condemn

    But, YLH, why you never show these above GOLDEN SENTIMENTS for American who are doing bombardment day & night in Waziristan & Bajur? Where innocent children & women are dying Or For the Kashmiris who martyred by Indian Army, or for the Hamas people who are dying with hunger in Gaza, for the Al fatah people who are fighting for the independence with Israel.

    And the language you used for me reflecting that you have bipolar manic disorder & you need depots for your schizophrenic hysterical condition , Raza Rumi (So called decent) should pay attention towards your psychological treatment & verbal diarrhea

  11. yasserlatifhamdani

    No {EDIED} terrorist is ALLOWED to post here any more.

  12. D_a_n

    @mazbut…

    sun liya? auqaat pata lag gaee apnee?

    This is yet another tragedy of a massice scale for Pakistan and Pakistani’s….

    yet the only thing that you can do is focus your brain on wether it is a temple or a mosque..

    {EDITED}

  13. D_a_n

    @kashifiat…

    {EDITED}

  14. Anwar

    Gentlemen… Please!
    This is not the way to eulogize those who lost their lives and many more who are likely to follow..

  15. Jamal

    YLH, calm down. But what do you expect when the likes of Hamid Mir are directing Punjabi Taliban towards their targets? Anyone still thinks that Hamid Mir tape is not real.

  16. donotask

    {mazbut
    May 28, 2010 at 3:17 pm
    The attack on Ahmadiya temples is condemnable but at the same time cursing others is tantamount to spreading more sectarian hatred.}

    Temples??????Aren’t they mosques?

    Come on people, they are Muslims, and if on this site you discriminate, do you expect any better outside.

  17. D_a_n

    @jamal…

    well said jamal….Hamid Mir is the first person that came to my mind when I turned the TV on……………

    I was watching Geo and they seemed to be really focusing on ‘Ahmedi Ibaadat gahain’….I couldnt take it so i switched to Dawn News. It’s been on for half an hour and they haven’t used the word Ahmedi once……

  18. yasserlatifhamdani

    Dawn is calling it an attack on the Mosque. Dawn has once again shown courage.

  19. Ali Abbas

    This is shocking!! Firstly, Ahmadi muslims are being massacred and held hostage by our “assets”. We then continue the massacre at this forum by referring to their mosques as temples; therby endorsing the bigotry of the murderous takfiri Jamaati Sipahs who are perpetrating this murder. Shame

  20. mazbut

    RRumi…ref your other post on the topic today..
    I like you calling Mirzai’s places of worship as ‘Places of Worship’ and congratulate for the prudence in use of words, very correct….You called a spade a spade and that’s what is required of an impartial and sensible man!!

    I already condemned the attack and will keep doing so,,,as well as some goons engaged by you who are averse to difference of opinion and resort to spewing garbage at others….Yes, Non Muslims cannot call their places of worship as Mosques nor hideously adopt Muslim signs and symbols to bluff other Muslims…..who have strong objection to that kind of mimicry.

  21. yasserlatifhamdani

    Raza used the term “mosque” atleast three times in that post.

  22. Shoaib

    No one has the right to declare anyone non-Muslim…..only God knows who is a believer and who isn’t…..If Ahmadis claim themselves as Muslims, they surely are and there is not a damn thing you can do about it

    And all those who think that Ahmadis aren’t Muslims, {Edited}

  23. yasserlatifhamdani

    {Edited} show us where the place of worship said “mosque”?

    *** This Message Has Been Sent Using BlackBerry Internet Service from Mobilink ***

  24. AZW

    I find it shocking to see that Mazbut and Kashifiat have the temerity to bring out their fanaticism as terrorists attack Ahmadi mosques.

    I am editing all the comments on this thread for language. Frankly I can understand why YLH is so emotional about it. This terrorist act brings out the exact worst in Pakistani society. I have nothing nice to say about Mazbut and Kashifiat. It is a dark side of free speech that bigots like you can post and air your comments freely too. Both of you live in a dark unlighted world, and governed by prejudices and intense paranoia. At least at PTH we can all see the darkness of your world and appreciate the imperfect beauty of the secular democracy, even in its mutilated form that is practiced in Pakistan.

    You have nothing to offer to us, the world, and yourself. Your confused ideology is taking its final breath. World is speeding by you, while you lament why Ahmadi place of worship should be called mosque or a temple. Or who constitutes a Muslim and a non Muslim. Your heart is filled with hatred, laments and abject frustration at continuous failure of everything that you have ever stood for in your lives.

    One final word to all commentators here on this thread and elsewhere: No more foul language against anyone, no matter how reprehensible their views are. PTH is not Chowk, or any other website where emotions come first before arguments. Criticism is justified, street fights with choicest of words are not.

  25. mazbut

    {Edited}

    go and find out yourself…
    RRumi started off with ‘places of worship’…and almost all the TV news channels are saying that. Go and fight with them all!!

  26. yasserlatifhamdani

    Mazbut

    Every TV channel said “mosque”.

    But your claim that the mosque was attacked because it said “mosque” outside shows what kind of [edited] you are because ahmadis have been stopped from calling their mosques mosques.

  27. yasserlatifhamdani

    I am going to be on Sama TV at 8 pm or about that time.

  28. AZW

    No more foul language on the board. I will delete all comments without prejudice from now on.

  29. SD

    This is all very sad and depressing … Why are we south asians so blood thirsty ..? Here in India the maoists are on a killing spree for economic reasons and there in Pak people cannot tolerate anybody who holds a different view on religion.
    I hope all this ends very soon

  30. CantDeclareMyName

    @YLH

    You just hijacked my questions.

    Would Mr Hafeez and other anti-ahmadi give me an answer.

    Is the murder and killings of Ahmadis, just like the one that happened, justified? Yes Or No.

    I would like personal opinions as well as the official stand of Jamaat-e-Islami.

    Please answer honestly.

    @YLH

    My sympathies go with you. Unfortunately most of Pakistanis like me are cowards. People like me cant even express their sympathies openly even on an internet forum.

    Do not use foul language. It will hurt you own cause.

  31. CantDeclareMyName

    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

    Regards

    Anonymous sunni Muslim who is afraid to delcare that he has sympathies for Ahamdis

  32. CantDeclareMyName

    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

    Regards

    Anonymous sunni Muslim who is afraid to declare that he has sympathies for Ahamdis

  33. MackLee

    First of all I must say All your facts in correct about Ahmadi muslims. I went to a convention of there’s held here in Canada, and I must say they treated me and my family with wonderful respect. Therefore God Alimighty will catch all those un-faithful muslims, who are causing such trouble. Everyone has the Right to remeber god, they should not be killed in the act like it was done today in Lahore, that is just a pathetic excuse, and If you ask me, jealiously. I think every Actual human who has a heart should consider the fact that we all have the right to remeber god. Ahmadi’s in pakistan have been treated miserably throughout the past, these people who commit these attacks, god will not forgive because they are just making them selves proove they are terrorists.
    So I don’t think Ahmadi individuals deserve this, killing is only gods job, not humans. Those who shall murder, will obiously be sent to hell, no one has the right to make up there own beliefs and say how Ahmadi’s are not the right people. If they aren’t then how come today they have spread globably, Because of the Help of god and their faith in god. So next time before you all say anything, or leave any pathetic comments about a religon, think again what you know and what you don’t.

  34. yasserlatifhamdani

    Well Mazbut should be happy… Sama chickened out about taking me on air knowing that I would put a big one up a lot of people.

  35. “Edited for language: YLH, we all share your extreme frustration here. But no foul language on the board. I will delete any language from here on. AZW}

    AWZ ! I have taken the screen shots of all GOLDEN / EXTREME FRUSTRATIONS. YLH has proven his upbringing & accompany. ch ch ch Poor YLH psycho case

    As far as Killing of Ahmadies are concern. Mazbut & me both has strongly condemn this act on above comments. But its your illusion that miss our points. Similarly I never own the TTP, they are planted people from CIA/Khad/RAW, who want to destabilize Pakistan by involving us in intra-religious fight & debates. Chapter of debate on Ahmadi’s status has been closed in 1974, now they are honorable Pakistani citizens & they have every right which I have. I strongly condemn this act, but simultaneously control your fanatic YLH.

    I can’t call him with the names he is calling me but he should control himself

  36. AZW

    1) The place of worship for Ahmadi community is a mosque. It is a mosque because Ahmadis call it a mosque. And it is none of my or yours business to call it anything else.

    2) Ahmadis are Muslims, if they call themselves Muslims. It is not a state responsibility to decide who is a Muslim, who is a Hindu, who is a Shia or who is Christian. Everyone is a human being, an unconditional equal human being with exact same rights.

    3) Those who attack Ahmedi mosques today are the same ones who have been killing Shias, and non Muslims across the breadth of Pakistan and the globe. They will kill again because that’s the only thing they can do. They have no political or social agenda. It is a narrow tunnel of religiosity that defines and guides their life. Over the course of human history, there have been many like them; in the Muslim as well as the non Muslim world. They are the future footnotes of history, and so will be their brethren who espouse the same ideology.

    4) Note now, and note well the cowards in Pakistan. Those who see the abject failure of their Islamic driven policy that was imposed upon Pakistan. And while they see on the front pages of the failure of the same Taliban that they supported before, they would rather cower and say nothing as all hell breaks loose. When innocents are maimed and killed in the name of religion, these cowards call “terrorists attack the place of worship”. They don’t even have the courage to call a mosque a mosque. Shame on them for their cowardice and indecisions.

    5) Those who fail to learn from history are destined to repeat it.

  37. MackLee

    Ahmadi’s don’t rasie a finger, towords violence, because they believe in “love for all , hatered for none”, while other muslims are proving them selves as terriorist, I believe that the person who seeks revenge is a coward. Therefore, Ahmadi’s are correct for standing there ground.

  38. Anyone who, instead of an unconditional condemnation of all acts of violence, hate speech and terrorism (against any individual or group), tries to offer a pretext or excuse, deserves to be perceived and treated as a terrorist / violence perpetrator.

    Their condemnation and punishment must be no different than the actual terrorists.

  39. nangapyar

    I don’t understand this hilariously unethical discussion going on here after such a tragic incident in Lahore.
    It seems like a filthy way of interpreting things (by killing facts) like the right-wing does.
    Someone here has declared south Asians “blood thirsty” by critiquing the Maoist revolutionaries in a typical conservative way and some people are foolishly arguing on the words to be used for Ahmedi mosques.

    Shame!
    Down with the right wing and fanatics!

  40. mazbut

    @ yasserlatifhamdani
    May 28, 2010 at 5:41 pm

    <<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>

    I am not happy at all! I was waiting to see you slapped on the face and thrown out of the room by someone LIVE!!

    Nevermind, this is not the end of the world….maybe anytime Talibans will invite you to a tea party and serve you well!! And that way you will get greater cheap publicity! I wish you take your side kick Dan along with you as well!!

    Fie on such education which makes a brute of a man
    in a jiffy!! To hell with so-called educated people like you,,,,go and attend court and talk that way to some client and you will surely end up as a lawyer recently ended up in sessions court!! Since you are not good at law you are simply idling away your time here to the amusement of a handful of your side kicks and sycophants ….

    Geo Tv has been through out calling the Mirzai temple as ”Ibadat gah” ,,,why don’t you lodge your protest with them??

    When the entire Muslim Ummah has declared Mirzais as non.Muslims there’s nothing left to call them Muslims or their places of worship Mosques!

    As for the current violence I already condemned it because it is not new…those terrorists have been attacking both Shia and Sunni mosques indiscriminately….not to speak of Mirzais.

    Bolnay kay waastay kuch reh nahi jaata hey jab
    mard-e-momin gaalion per jhat utar aata hey tab
    aisay logoan ko bhala kaise kahein hum sher ab
    buzdilo-bad khulq bad kirdaar azal se jin ke dhab!!

  41. YLH

    Mazbut…

    [edited]… don’t worry… not the first time I have been on TV…. I have [edited] like you for breakfast.

  42. YLH

    The younger brother of Zafrulla Khan, Pakistan’s first foreign minister and author of the Lahore resolution, dead in the TERRORIST ATTACK!

  43. Bciv

    @Kashifiat

    “Chapter of debate on Ahmadi’s status has been closed in 1974, now they are honorable Pakistani citizens & they have every right which I have. “

    The Constitution gives all citizens the fundamental right:

    20.(a) every citizen shall have the right to profess, practise and propagate his religion;

    you are claiming that you have the right of might to decide, in law (indeed the very same Constitution itself!), the religion that another citizen may or may not profess, while you do not accept any such denial of your right to define your own profession of religion.

    how can a citizen with fundamental rights and one without be equal? don’t think you can fool others just because you are good at fooling yourself.

  44. Pingback: Video and Blog Posts From Lahore Under Attack - The Lede Blog - NYTimes.com

  45. Midfield Dynamo

    “What’s in a name? That which we call a rose by any other name would smell as sweet”
    – William Shakespeare, Romeo and Juliet, 2.2

  46. Nadeem

    Shahbaz Sharif has to pick a side – he wants to live under shadow of Nawaz and ‘Right Wing’ hawks of his party planted by JI or stands strong against extremism.

    We have entered a new era – its not Anti-PPP anymore – its Anti-extremism – If PML doesn’t stop siding extremists, its thing of past.

    Ahmadi’s are Muslim if they claim so, we got no right to decide about their personal beliefs. And PMLN should step in offer support for repael of notorious ammnedment. PPP, MQM and ANP have no problem with that, its PMLN fear of loosing extremists vote (very small) and a hurdle in a radical change.

  47. umer ali

    [edited]

  48. Maestro96

    @MAzbut – Who are you or anyone else to tell me what I or anyone else call their place of worship. No legal or religious reason can support your prejudice views. Sadly, its the mindset of people like you who give these barbarians the legitimacy to carry out their killings. You really need to work on your ‘value system’ and come out of your prejudiced filled mindset.

  49. umer ali

    [edited]

  50. umer ali

    [edited]

  51. umer ali

    [edited]

  52. mazbut

    @ Amna

    The Sikhs also believe in One God….does that mean they are Muslims and mimic Muslim Kalima or signs and symbols?? No. They have a distinct identity as a religious people of Sikhism. Likewise if the abusive Mirzai’s declared their true identity as non-Muslims and refrained from the profanity of faking Islamic customs they would create less uproar and unrest in the Islamic world!

  53. Tilsim

    @ Mazbut

    Of course in your current state of mind anyone who does n’t agree with you must be with the devil or worse, Ahmedis. Your hatred for your fellow beings is sad. May Allah soften your heart and tongue and give you understanding of your religion. Allah softened Hazrat Umar’s heart. May he soften yours too. Ameen.

  54. Maestro96

    @YLH – My advice to you – Just don’t respond to these losers. They are way below your class. People like them will end up killing each other while calling each other ‘agents.’ Something which is already happening. Remember the mullah in Lahore who used to praise suicide bombing as the highest perform of Jihad. Well guess what? He ended up tasting that medicine himself.

    It would be interesting to note their views when one of their family members get blown to smithereens by a virgin seeking jihadi. The chickens do come back to roost. What goes around does come around!

  55. Prasad

    Umer Ali: you are indoctrinated. Your targets are Ahmedis, Hindus, Christians, Jews, Shias ( in the event you are a sunni and vice versa) and not sure who else

    If you think someone violated islam, go to police station and lodge an FIR. why rhetoric/gunning down innocent lives?? the same Ghori/Gaznavi syndrome is it? dont go by whatever ‘advised’ by Zakir Naik /Zaid Hamid the master indoctrinators….

    You should enroll yourself again to college/studies and study history ‘mindless acts of the past’. Get out of the madrassa syndrome.

  56. Prasad

    Mazbut: You dont seem to have heard of ‘Sufis’ or their renaissance for more than 300 years during early 16th Century onwards…When you dont term Moinuddeen Chistie or many more sufis as ‘non muslim’ why should you hurl abuses against ahmedis and their beliefs? – this notorious ideology trickles down and eventually everybody is noted for his day….mumbai, pune, lahore, NY, Moscow and many more….Please be humane…

  57. Maestro96

    @Mazbut – [edited] What you don’t realize is that giving a justification to such killings will only end up devouring you.

  58. yasserlatifhamdani

    Umer Ali is not only abusing ahmadis but condoning the terrorist attacks today. He says it was good.

    And what is [edited] Mazbut’s response …

    These bastards are not human beings.

  59. kashifiat

    “Tum kitnay Ahmadi maro gay. Hur ghar say Ahmadi niklay ga.”

    Bechara YLH, cha cha cha

  60. Prasad

    kashifat tum admi nahi hai. {EDITED}. At this young age you have attained this glory notwithstanding your MBA and all that…

    YLH/DAN/AZW/RRumi: Hats off..may your dream come true

  61. Anwar

    I wanted to write something on this barbaric incident but after reading all the foul language I better stay away. This forum certainly need some strict rules.

    @YLH
    I sincerely advise you not to use abusive/foul language against anyone even if they abuse you otherwise there will be no difference between you and them.

  62. I’m quite appalled at how on Earth could someone justify the killing of SEVENTY people!!!!!
    Those who really are taking a shot at it, here’s a parallel analogy: if US bombs an entire village, proclaiming that the version of democracy being followed there is false and is misguiding people, how many of my pious Muslims brethern here will be ok with that?

  63. Ali Abbas

    The number of murdered has now gone up to 70 and we are debating semantics! This has to be condemned and those who are perpetrating it and apologizing for murder have to be brought to justice! I reiterate what Nishapur has said that those who massacred Ahmadis today are the same who have massacred Christains, Shias, Brehlvis and Sikhs and pretty much anyone who does not agree with them! When the hell will PML N wake up from its reactionary politics and crack down all over Punjab. For how long will we continue having them as “assets” and will people realize that the un-elected bureaucrats are mangling the law in support of these assets!

  64. nangapyar

    I commented here before and opposed the whole act in details but your deletion show your conservative mindedness. why would you delete my post? Due to my sexual blog?
    Whats wrong with that? If Freud talks about that you call that intellect but if an ordinary person is being frustrated in this society full of frustrations, you discriminate her.

    Its my right to participate here.

  65. Nadeem

    YHL…Stop editing…it always makes your case weak! let readers decide upon the arguments and the language! ‘People are the best judge’….thats basis of freedom of speech…let them hate and earn the response.

    Raza..You know YHL is hot headed! Let this topic be ‘pure’ as land of Pure…people deserve to know who use what language and represent which ideology!

  66. a muslim

    @mazbut:

    What kind of a muslim you are???
    Don’t you feel shame in calling a place where people pray to Allah, and recite Holy Quran etc a “temple” or other name instead of a Mosque????

  67. yasserlatifhamdani

    I have not even edited a single post.

  68. yasserlatifhamdani

    Swappdutta, [edited] tujhe samjhaya nahi hai kay you are not welcome. Ja aur chowk pur [edited].

    Moderators please remove fascist dutta without prejudice. Thank you.

  69. Yasser,

    Munizae Jehangir on Express News kept saying “mosque” but everyone else kept saying “worship places” as did the majority of the news channels I saw today (ibaadat gah). This is just REPULSIVE and I fear our Punjab government will let the terrorists they’ve just caught go…

  70. yasserlatifhamdani

    The Punjab govt has too many links with fascist right wing groups to take any action.

  71. khan

    Dears,
    We all Pakistanis are prisoner of one or other kind of fear. The free media has fear to say a mosque a mosque or Masjid where the people do Sajdahs is in arabic Masjid. Islam even allows the worship places of otherreligions as Masjids. But we are Prisoners of some known fear. During my studies our Student leader at Examination Hall held a speech that there is no Qadiani Nigran at Exam. and you can take Examination without fear. After that I met him and on my asking told that the yougs have not prepared due to strikes and when an Examiner will check we will beat him to be a Qadiani. So dears Islam is in skys nowadays and Pakistan is suffering prison while the Jinn is out of bottle. Bad chracter Ulema and politisions can only accelerate our Zawal.
    Ajnabi khak naiN dhundhla diaye Qadmoon kay suragh
    Gul karo shammaiN , Bhar-ha do maa o meena o ayyagh
    Aapney bay khawab Ka-varoon ko muqafal kar lo
    Ab yahan koi nahiaN , Koi nahiaN aaye Ga

    C. Khan Adv.

  72. Bciv

    only last year the punjab govt’s auqaf dept sponsored khatam e nabuwat’s conference at badshahi mosque.

    btw, on ARYNews, the young news readers were referring to the mosques as mosques until nasrullah malik came on and started using the ‘ibadat gah’ term. his juniors/the youngsters followed suit.

  73. Bciv

    @Nadeem

    to the best of my knowledge, no ‘arguments’, no matter how ridiculous, have been deleted. only bad language has been, and even there only the specific word or words have been deleted. i don’t see how or why that could affect the readers’ ability to fully understand what is being said. no s**t has been swept under the carpet. sick minds are there for all to see. there is more than enough here to be angry at and ashamed of… ourselves.

  74. Prasad

    Swapnavasavdatta – Pl dont generalise…On the contrary support rational friends from Pakistan. It is they who will eventually win ( my support to them) over fundamental animals…. you will get brick bats if you toe the line of blind belief in CPI/CPM/CPN /CPL etc for the last 35 yrs…

  75. Fazal

    Anwar
    May 28, 2010 at 9:50 pm

    I wanted to write something on this barbaric incident but after reading all the foul language I better stay away. This forum certainly need some strict rules.

    @YLH
    I sincerely advise you not to use abusive/foul language against anyone even if they abuse you otherwise there will be no difference between you and them.

    Jesus Christus said
    one spends out of what he owns
    Fazal

  76. Fazal

    To Anwar

    Jesus Christus said
    one spends out of what he owns
    Fazal

  77. basket

    as i read few comments dey were really rude that ahmadies dont call dere mosque a mosque and lots of pple were swearing to other people guys people r dying out thier one time openn your eyes and look at dis world. a mosque is a place of worship nd who destroys it is going to burn in hell and will be screaming for forgiveness people burn the mosque to show how religous dey r ooo ok is dat how religouse they are burning the hous of god…4get the fights and plz just pray for the people who died in dis terrorist atttack 1 prayer can make a big diffrence y dont people understand tht other pple would like to be treate the way we wnt to be treated people are humans they have a heart and pray that the people whos eyes are filled with tears thier wishes come true
    … people cant see peoples pain but god can if u really love god 1 person who stops a fighting can teach the world how to ignore people if we all coporate we can bring peace into dis world

  78. Natasha

    Larro larro. Kuttay billon ki tarah larro shabash. Yehi asliat hai Pakistanion ki. Isi lie poori duniya mein mazak bana hua hai. Asliat dikhao apni dunya ko. Yehi ho tum loag. Yehi hai humara UNITY FAITH DISCIPLINE.

  79. yasserlatifhamdani

    Dear “an Ahmadi”

    We are not concerned with theology. Good that you are.

    As Pakistanis and followers of Quaid e Azam (“Quaidianis”) we are only concerned about equal rights for all citizens of Pakistan.

    *** This Message Has Been Sent Using BlackBerry Internet Service from Mobilink ***

  80. I can only cry and laugh on the involvement of Religion in People’s lives. It is the cause of many sufferings.

  81. Maestro96

    @AnAhmadiMuslim – Thanks for reminding us with the slogan – Love for ALL Hatred for NONE. This is the difference between us and them.

  82. Maestro96

    @YLH – Calm down man. These losers will bite the dust. It is only a matter of time.

  83. Bin Ismail

    To all Ahmadis:

    Wo tum ko Husain banaatay hain aur aap Yazeedi bantay hain
    Yeh kya hee sasta sauda hai dushman ko teer chalaanay do

  84. Natasha

    Mazbut,

    I am not singling out anybody here. Whoever’s abusing is only showing his Pakistani aukaat. First second third makes no difference. YLH is no mama chacha of mine. I have often seen him making personal attacks on members and getting rude without provocation. He’s not the only one being a badmash gujjar here though.

    Nobody’s being singled out. Abuse please. We cannot talk without bringing in harmazadgi , kuttapana and ofcourse fucking mothers sisters who have nothing to do with what is being discussed (?)

  85. Rightly explained the hypocrisy terrorist organization Jamat-e-Islami, I was just listening the Front line show and Jamati Siraj ul haq hypocrisy along with the Rana Sana ullah was so distasteful.

  86. yasserlatifhamdani

    There is a difference. YLH is not saying why killing in cold blood 90 Ahmadis was the right and proper thing to do.

  87. Ron

    To all ahmadis:

    “First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win.” ~ Mahatma Gandhi

    To YLH……..FULL SUPPORT TO YOU.

    If they(extremists) hit you…..hit back with everything that you have.

    No mercy.

    No leniency.

    Full throttle attack on extremism.

  88. Ron

    We need a Che Guevara like figure in all countries……who will catch the right wing extremists and eliminate. One at a time.

  89. yasserlatifhamdani

    I also must register my scorn for “An Ahmadi” and “An Ahmadi Muslim” who are singing mantra of “love for all hatred for none” like bleating sheep living abroad.

    Learn a lesson. Your policy of being low key is now full discredited. Organize yourselves politically. And learn a lesson from those shers of Ahmadiyya movement who fought back and taught TTP a lesson.
    *** This Message Has Been Sent Using BlackBerry Internet Service from Mobilink ***

  90. babloo

    AZW Wrote

    “1) The place of worship for Ahmadi community is a mosque. It is a mosque because Ahmadis call it a mosque. And it is none of my or yours business to call it anything else.

    2) Ahmadis are Muslims, if they call themselves Muslims. It is not a state responsibility to decide who is a Muslim, who is a Hindu, who is a Shia or who is Christian. Everyone is a human being, an unconditional equal human being with exact same rights.

    Self evident truth. Are there really people who disagree with it and not in a mental asylum ! . What a shame. ????

  91. MackLee

    I am proud to be Ahmadi, and Inshallah May Allah Fill this world with Ahmadi , The more you kill Ahmadi, the more the word will Spread inshallah. As humans, in the least we should all unite as one, thats the message of to all muslims. Why do we have such differences today, Why are Ahmadi’s called “Quadiyani, or then Mirza’s” , Just because We stayed on the right path, and keep’t peace and tolerance tell this day and till the last day. Ahmadi’s are such individuals that will Stand for their beliefs, which are the actual facts. Hazrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad(r.a) didn’t create a new religon he just revised the religon to those who ha forgoten the right path. In other words, there is no such thing as non muslims, cuz yet till this day Sunni’s re waiting for the promised one. We Ahmadi do believe the same beliefs, however we recognised The promised one when he came, how does that give the tittle of non-muslim. We just followed the Holy Qur’an and Allah’s signs, which are the true resourses of evidence. Don’t be so shallow and think of others in such a way that hatered grows throughout your hearts, learn to love what you have and every religons people. You must Respect Every religon in order to recieve respect.

    Therefore, When The Ahmadi Jammat first established, their were no new teaching just the same teaching as our beloved Prophet Muhammad(saw).
    What happened today, was Tragedy that was so unexpected, it hurts alot that brother is killing his own brother.
    You must all remeber the true meaning of Islaam, and it is definitely nothing to do with Jihad.
    For those of you that haven’t read the Holy Qur’an with translation, please do so and pay attention to the details.

    The biggest proof of all is Righteousness of The Ahmadiyya Muslim Jammat, Till this day they show peace and tolerance, Allhumdolliah.
    They Have truly Shown the meaning of Islam, so regardless of who thinks we are a muslim and who believes we are non-muslims, in End it is gods views only who matter.
    May Allah fufill his promise that he’ll protect his jammat, as he has been doing.
    May Ahmadiyyat fill throughtout all your hearts, the doors of Righteousness await for your presence. We do not wish anything bad for the rest of you Muslims, May Allah Enable all of you to Strengthen you’re hearts, and fill them with Generosity , peace and tolerance. INSHALLAH.
    May you all become true believers, of The Right form of Islam. INSHALLAH.

    Sincerly,
    An Ahmadi Muslim.

  92. Jay

    This is from victims of such evil ideology, be they Ahmadis, Shias, Christians, Hindus or even Sunnis themselves – to the President, Prime Minister, Chief Minister of Punjab, ALL CITIZENS OF PAKISTAN, and foremost the root cause of all this the Jamaat Islami:

    4:75. What (excuse) have you (to offer) that you would not fight in the cause of Allâh and for (the rescue of) the weak and the down-trodden men and women and the children who all say, `Our Lord! take us out of this town of which the people are tyrants, and grant us a defender who comes from You and a helper by Your Own grace.’

    [The Holy Quran – Nooruddin]

  93. Knightrain

    Neither it is foreigners nor Taliban that perpetrated the attacks in Lahore. To divert attention away from its failures, the Pakistani government is playing the card of sectarian violence. People have no electricity, no water, no atta, no sugar – even daal is now out of the reach of millions. Welcome to democracy for which the nation yearned!!

  94. These killings are the chain reaction of Taliban’s revenge who are indiscriminately killing innocents Pakistanis. Unfortunately this time it was Ahmedis turn.

    Let’s not differentiate between Ahmedis and Non Ahmedis here, currently people from both sides have been killed.

  95. MackLee

    Alot of people get killed everyday, But u other muslisms believe in Jihad, where u bring your selves in to the problem of gettin Shaheed. Ahmadi avoid this, because we do not believe in Jihad, it is wrong and tht is not wht islaam teaches. So Rather then worrying about your people that got kill, which im awfully sorry for, think about why they get killed. Yes there are innocent lives, and yes I feel so sad tht at such young ages they die, and they haven’t done anything. In reality its not only about my Ahmadi brothers and sisters that got killed today, in reality it involes us all muslims. The reason this issue has spread globally today, is because Ahmadi are the true reflection of Islaam, and People of all other religons in the world respect them, because they have respect for people and their religons. Allah does not ask for blood shed, he only asks to treat your brothers like brothers and your sisters liek sisters, not as enemies. So in reality people should avoid jihad, and later regret it on the day of judgement, because that is just really a form of suicide, even though the person may not kill themselves, killing another human is like killing your self and commiting sin that in a stain on you till the day of judgement. Ahmadi have done nothing wrong nore ever killed anyone, they are peaceful loving ppl, and all those of ou that think this event tht occured today will effect are humbleness of peace and tolerance, you are wrong, AHMADIYAAT ZINDABAAD! All us Ahmadi’s are united as one, we are all family we all care for each other and love eachother, we do not have any form of hatered in our hearts. Take our hearts and open them and you’ll see are hearts are lightened with love. We have respect for other religons as they do for Islam. May allah Enable us to get through this difficult time, and INSHALLAH give us the power to Spread the True word of Islaam to the corners of this earth. AMEEN.

  96. Bciv

    @Natasha

    Larro larro. Kuttay billon ki tarah larro shabash. Yehi asliat hai Pakistanion ki. Isi lie poori duniya mein mazak bana hua hai. Asliat dikhao apni dunya ko. Yehi ho tum loag. Yehi hai humara UNITY FAITH DISCIPLINE

    you had a valid point about someone stereotyping ‘bearded people’ on the other thread, but i’m afraid your comment above is unfair and wrong. think about it.

    using bad language does not make a racist and bigot and those who believe in equality and fundamental rights, equal. standing up to a bully does not make you a bully.

  97. Natasha

    I pointed out ‘tolerance’ and ‘decency’ being displayed here on this forum. Never said whose right and whose wrong. If they are fighting like dogs , they ARE fighting like dogs no matter what they say. Nothing’s unfair.

  98. Bciv

    telling half the truth is unfair.

  99. Natasha

    The truth – they were abusing each other. I came here to see what’s been discussed in 90 plus posts. And I read all sorts of abuses here. Commented about the tolerance of this azeem qaum of azeem quaid.

    Nothing justifies indecency.

  100. Bciv

    Commented about the tolerance of this azeem qaum of azeem quaid.

    that’s a moral high horse a bit too high for me to join you on, i’m afraid.

    Nothing justifies indecency.

    there i’m with you.

  101. Knightrain

    Nero-Dari plays the flute while Rome-istan burns!!

  102. Optimist

    nobody really gets that angry unless someone’s talking about their own family/community.. Yes its true that YLH’s sentiments are different on this occasion(as you can see: http://yfrog.com/0yylhp), which signifies the link that one might have, maybe A. Serwai would know…

  103. Optimist

    nobody really gets that angry unless someone’s talking about their own family/community.. Yes its true that YLH’s sentiments are different on this occasion(as you can see: yfrog.com/0yylhp), which signifies the link that one might have, maybe A. Serwai would know…

  104. Optimist

    nobody really gets that angry unless someone’s talking about their own family/community.. Yes its true that YLH’s sentiments are different on this occasion(as you can see: yfrog.com/0yylhp), which signifies the link that one might have, maybe A. Serwari would know…

  105. Just Walking By

    I stumbled on this site by accident while googling the incident in Lahore, Pakistan today. I would like to leave a few comments, please.

    1) In his book titled India-Partition-Independence, Jaswant Singh states, “Affirmative action, reservations for Muslims, other castes and communities unfortunately does not dissolve those identities; it heavily underscores them, waters their roots, perpetuating differences through the nutrient of self interest being poured constantly in separateness. Reservation results finally in compartmentalizing society, hence ultimately in fragmenting national identity…”

    I see something similar happening in Pakistan. The moment you call out and reserve laws for a particular sect or community, you water the roots for intolerance and hatred. And hatred, although simply an emotion, on a large scale is powerful enough to affect a country negatively.

    2) I see some arguments on whether Ahmadi mosques are mosques, etc. I have researched and found that the definition of a Muslim is one who believes in one god and affirms that Muhammad is the messenger of god. By that definition, Ahmadis are Muslims.

    Some have argued that the constitution declares them as non-Muslims, hence they are non-Muslim. Bear in mind that there was a time when everyone considered Muhammad a liar. Bear in mind that they said, “shall we believe in you and your god when our fathers and forefathers have believed such and such…” I caution you – use your own mind and judgement. Judge out of your own accord after you have done your research. If you still conclude that they are non-Muslims, then so be it. But establish educated opinions.

    3) To the forum administrators – good job on establishing a stage for great discourse.

  106. harbir singh nain

    “nobody really gets that angry unless someone’s talking about their own family/community.. ”

    let me quote John Donne to you:

    No man is an island,
    Entire of itself.
    Each is a piece of the continent,
    A part of the main.
    If a clod be washed away by the sea,
    Europe is the less.
    As well as if a promontory were.
    As well as if a manner of thine own
    Or of thine friend’s were.
    Each man’s death diminishes me,
    For I am involved in mankind.
    Therefore, send not to know
    For whom the bell tolls,
    It tolls for thee.

    In this case, replace “Europe” with “Pakistan”. You, Mr. Optimist, speak like a man who sees the world only through the lens of community, and values inadequately the humanity that is common to all. You show that you would not feel outrage at the plight of humans if they were not of your family/community. You are a much lesser man than YLH, low enough in fact, to fall below the bar of being considered civilized. But, none the less, full marks to you for being honest enough to not pretend to care about things that you in fact do not care about.

  107. Heer Verma

    wow… i hate terrorists.. my uncle died in this massacre and all those ppl who are still calling ahmadis non-muslims should get a life.. i hate you too

  108. Who has a right to edit/remove anyone’s views here? I strongly oppose the usage of abusive language but please do not delete the views regarding anything.

    Pak Tea House in real life was a center of intellect, which even during all the dark regimes of dictatorship, remained a gathering of people who resisted the oppression and without any hesitation.

    The Tea House in Lahore never ever imposed any restrictions in expressing the views.

    This blog, being a dedication to that place, should be open enough to accept the diverse point of views.

    When I wrote something against the religion, they shouldn’t have deleted that. This is a traditionalist way of looking into things.

  109. Malik

    Let there be peace, let there be peace…..

    My question is that who are u lot to judge ppl about their religious beliefs evryone should have their freedom for their beliefs.. you are no one to judge us about our beliefs we believe what we want to and no government no terriost can back us off from our beliefs…if you cant take us as muslims atleast take us as humans….

    is that what your religion teaches you to kill people and claim them to be wrong during their prayer… our woo bhi peechay say waar karna…. well let me tell those ppl who think that they are figthing for God well you know what ur not u claim to be muslims i dont think so…. u r muslims only with ur names not with ur deeds……..

    Ahmadiyya Muslim Accociation is a peacefull community which is a divine organisation.”Love for all Hatred for none” and this describes through ahmadies actions even after being targetted so many times we still believe in “Love for all,Hatred for none”
    May Allah Grant shuhadaaz peace and their families patientce.May Allah protect all good natured people from the evil acts of those opposed to peace.”

    and i am referring this to those ppl who are against ahmadies and claim us to be wrong….

  110. My sincerest condolences on this dreadful national tragedy. There are no words that can sufficiently address this level of grief and sorrow.

  111. Natasha

    //Commented about the tolerance of this azeem qaum of azeem quaid.

    that’s a moral high horse a bit too high for me to join you on, i’m afraid.//

    I was being sarcastic. Nothing’s azeem about this qaum and that is why you saw me commenting about the dog-fight here. I was not being sarcastic when I made that comment though. When I said ‘this is our reality’ , I meant it.

  112. yasserlatifhamdani

    Harbir,

    Thank you for this kindness.

    Optimist,

    All humanity is at the end a community and all Pakistanis are my family (some fanatics I don’t consider pakistani or human beings)

    I have no religion. I am only a simple admirer of Mahomed Ali Jinnah and that is the extent of my “religious belief” if any.

    All my efforts are a sum total of these two postulates. As a human being, a Pakistani and an admirer of Jinnah, I’d like to see all citizens of Pakistan no matter what religion caste or creed they belong to treated equal citizens and dealt with fairly.

    Beyond this I bear no one any ill will.

  113. Bciv

    @Natasha

    ‘this is our reality’

    what is our reality? using ‘indecent language’?

    there is another reality – an integral part of the reality you chose to see – and that is the difference between the bereaved and those taunting and provoking the bereaved, flaunting their belief that they consider the victim not deserving of fundamental rights that they themselves enjoy and accusing him of practically bringing the calamity upon himself. frankly, i would make allowance for that important part of the reality; at least while the wounds are fresh. i would desist from moralising in that situation, for one day.

  114. HM

    Why do you people say the Ahmadiyya community is the wrong Islam!Can’t you see that whenever the Ahmadis are attacked ,they never fight back in addition they only ask Allah to sign them to the right path!Please people open your eyes and look what is the truth!

  115. pHaze

    What happened in the attack is tragic. The important issue is that this cannot be dismissed as one off hand. I observed that some people actually call the attack place as a temple!!. Everyone is entitled to his opinion, but yet people must be united in coming to an agreement as to what is good for the nation. Ahmeddis are probably a small community and I assume that they wont have any political power to defend themselves. A secular and broadminded system plays a very important role in levelling the playing field for one and all. If the state looks back upon such discrimination, this will set a very very bad precedent for the future civil society in Pakistan. I dont see these Islamist organizations packing up in the near future. I wonder how long it will be, and how painful, for the pakistani society to become ‘normal’ again? And if the Taliban situation is not handled properly, I fear Pakistan wont be the only state they will take down with them.

    Lots of people on this forum talk about reform and about rebuilding Pakistan society. On the other hand, I wonder how much difference does it make on ground, by posting on such forums!.

  116. Pingback: A Taliban apologist perspective on the Ahmedi massacre in Lahore « Therearenosunglasses’s Weblog

  117. Natasha

    Bciv,

    I never said a word about who’s right and who’s wrong. There have been some really sick comments here no doubt. That however , as I said earlier) cannot justify indecency. Fucking each others mothers and sisters has no justification. Please dont try to potray me as a biased person here. I have nothing to do with the two and their supporters. I raised an issue regarding what I witnessed on this so-called ‘intellectual’ forum. My intellect couldnt handle all that. I commented. And what I said was not untrue.

    A pointless argument it is. No more comments on the issue from my side.

  118. K

    YLH – Your boldness and courage is second to none. It indeed is applausable.

    But pls just dont come to others’ level while replying… They are atleast a generation behind.

  119. YLH

    A slap in the face of Jamaat e Islami and its crooks…. Tahir Ahmed’s detailed paper on the Ahmadiyya Muslim Movement and its support for Pakistan Movement: http://www.alislam.org/library/books/AhmadiyyaMuslim-and-Muslims-of-India.pdf

    Dear K,

    Thank you.

    Dear BJKumar,

    Thanks.

    Please also accept our condolences on the demise of 80 innocents at the hands of Maoist extremists in India.

  120. Farm Boy!

    Way to go the JEHAD FESABILLILLAH conducted by likes of IJT & the foot soldiers of I-Slam the TALIBANS, headed by the ONE EYED DAJJAL Mullah Umer.

    THe Pious Soldier of Resistance out of a seminary headed by Maulana SOdomy must had gone straight to HEaven to his 70 HOORS with a lifetime of boner as promised to him by Molvi Haffeez, who demonstrated the act to the SHaheed 1st han b4 he left for his JIHAD!!!!

  121. Farm Boy!

    Umer ALi & Kashif Hafeez, say my Salam to your KHALIFA hte one eyed Mullah Omer when you meet him in HELL along with MAUDODI! coz he aint coming out of his Rat hole in torabora any soon, the poor SOB gonna die in a Drone Attack.

  122. Khullat

    Were these events simply random acts of terrorism against Lahore?

    In my opinion, it should require an IQ of approximately 70, below which one is generally categorized as an “idiot”, to comprehend that these attacks were not on Lahore, they were on the Ahmadiyya Jamaat. So, if you come across a column titled “Lahore under attack” or “Lahore besieged”, rest assured that its author is a genius with an enviable IQ of [<70]. Anyone with an IQ of [70+] and minimum moral courage, would simply say "Ahmadis under attack" or "Ahmadis besieged".

  123. Official Statement of Ahmadiyya Muslim Community Pakistan.

  124. Ramesh Manghirmalani

    There is Blood shed of the people who have lived together for centuries and have just been divided by a thin line .. A line forcefully drawn between the people and firmly stands on the land. I, am totally shocked and perplexed, I think ( Taliban ) these are bunch of animals . I was shocked to hear about the tragedy at Lahore Mosque. I feel sad for the families of innocent people who lost their lives during this barbarian terrorist attack. I also feel sorry for their families.Some effects of the Civil War weren’t just economically, but personal to. Some People didn’t know what to expect when they got home to their families, and to see how disappointed their families were. A lot of families that lost someone special to them during the Taliban entry to Pakistan. I used to think a lot over the issues of life: Why do we live on earth? How should we live? Where will we go after death? How can we avoid drifting with the tide? How can we retain a kind nature in such a materialistic society? I could not help contemplating these questions. Other people did not understand why I cared so much about these things, and I could not understand why they did not think of them at all.Science and academic degrees could not help me answer these questions. Other than bringing us some material abundance and comfort, science has nothing to do with spirituality and morality, nor can it truly improve the essence of our lives. But since reading Zhuan Falun, Mohan Das Karachand Gandhi, and Pandit J. Nehru, all of my questions were answered and I started to understand everything– life, nature, universe, science, morality, Buddha, Tao or God. I felt I had been waiting for a long, long time, just for this Fa, and at last I finally found it. Since then, my life has had a goal.The terrorist attack reminded me of another issue, which is that nothing other than mankind’s morality and the protection of God can help us or keep us from being harmed. Even in the U.S., a country with the most developed scientific technology and the most advanced military forces, a tragedy involving the loss of thousands of lives in a single day could still happen. How can anyone, in any country, still consider himself safe? In the face of such an unexpected tragedy, scientific technology, wealth, power, prosperity, and other pursuits in a human world built upon materialism, cannot be compared with the preciousness of the first cry of a newborn baby.If we really treasure life, we should see it as our duty-bound responsibility to repress and punish the bad, assist and promote the good, and stop the evil. This is because crimes against innocent people by the vicious could potentially harm every one of us, plus affect our nation and our offspring. Right now, I understand better than ever that the world needs kindness and justice and living beings need “Truthfulness, Compassion and Forbearance.”Harming an innocent person is actually harming all innocent people. The persecution of “Truthfulness, Compassion and Forbearance” is a threat against the essence of all life. Many things do not occur to us personally; however, a kind person cares more about others’ mishaps than his own. Facing the fundamental choice between right and wrong, as well as the struggles between good and evil, or righteousness and viciousness, everyone has to make their own decisions. Will you choose goodness or evil? Being indifferent to evil is a kind of acquiescence, and thus is committing a crime. On the other hand, every effort that supports kindness likewise serves to suffocate the evil. The so-called “neutral” attitude does not exist. In the past two years, Falun Gong has been calling on all kind-hear-ted people and international organizations to support and to help stop the brutal persecution of “Truthfulness, Compassion and Forbearance.” This is to provide an opportunity for people to know the truth and take a correct position regarding fundamental issues of right and wrong. This is not trivial but related to the well-being of everyone’s future. We should not permit tolerance to degenerate into indifference.May God bless every family, and I wish I can be of some help. I hope the people behind the heartless murder of so many innocent lives are caught and brought to justice very soon.Think for yourselves and let others enjoy the privilege to do so too. As I, conclude, All … religions show the same disparity between belief and practice, and each is safe till it tries to exclude the rest. Test each sect by its best or its worst as you will, by its high-water mark of virtue or its low-water mark of vice. But falsehood begins when you measure the ebb of any other religion against the flood-tide of your own. There is a noble and a base side to every history.I am on the side of the unregenerate who affirm the worth of life as an end in itself, as against the saints who deny it.Occasionally in life there are those moments of unutterable fulfillment which cannot be completely explained by those symbols called words. Their meanings can only be articulated by the inaudible language of the heart.May God be with you my friends, Khuda Haiz

  125. imran tahir

    @maclee well said i second u as an ahmadi i been victim of all this back home i got question to mzbut shahib what he will feel if he been treated the same way like we people been trough every day life back home pakistan shame on u ,what i will say and i will invite u come here and see what humanity is u r one of those animal which look like human but mentaly animal so GOd give rite diriction that i will say for u and for pakistan ,i am proud being ahmadi and what make me different form othar pakistani folks in canada is teaching and terbiat by ahmadiyat .

  126. shiv

    I am told that animals who have been in captivity (say inside a fence) do not automatically run away and escape the minute there is a breach in the fence.

    Indoctrination engenders a fear of stepping outside the accepted limits. This is what I am reminded of when I see people wondering, discussing, arguing about whether an Ahmedi place of worship should be called a mosque or not

    From the viewpoint of a non Muslim, a Muslim is a person who declares that he is one and lives his life on the basis of the teachings of the Quran. His place of worship is called mosque. This may seem all too simplistic to a Muslim who might want to pick holes in this narrative.

    As an Indian living in India I always accepted the unity of Islam and the idea that all Muslims are one in their beliefs and practices. After all the idea that “Muslims are a separate nation unto themselves” suggested that Muslims form one united nation. It was Pakistani actions that forced me to learn about all the exploitable fissures within Islamic society, and as an Indian I have been amused (and cheered) by Pakistan’s attempts to kill diversity.

    With 25 million firearms on the loose – much luck will be needed for unification.

  127. MK

    @Mazbut & others who argue the Ahmadi are not Muslim:

    Does it really matter what you believe? Is that not up to God to decide what is in another man’s heart? It should be enough that Pakistani has turned against Pakistani, & that people have been slaughtered in a house of worship where their only crime was submission to devotional prayers as required by their faith. What has happened in Lahore is shameful. That anyone would attempt to justify it by saying the Ahmadi asked for it by “borrowing” Muslim symbols or using words like “mosque” puts his own faith to shame.

    For the record, I am an American, a woman and a Christian. Those facts alone will likely bother some of you, but perhaps it will serve to remind you that your foul language and hateful comments are being noted far from Pakistan, by people genuinely interested in the teachings of Islam and the problems in your country.

    I have embraced many friends of different faiths, including several Muslims. I learned about the attacks in Lahore from an Ahmadi friend. We have been good friends for several years. In all that time, this person has only called himself Muslim. He sees himself as a follower of Allah first. Is this not the first pillar of Islam?

  128. MK

    Like Islam, the Christian faith has several distinct splits & many sects. As mainstream Muslims refuse to accept the Ahmadi, so most Catholic and Protestant Christians do not accept Mormons (LDS) as true believers because they follow a modern-day prophet and accept new scriptures (The Book of Mormon). But if you ask any LDS person about his beliefs, he will call himself a Christian. He will quote Christian scriptures and use Christian symbols such as a cross. I do not think Mormon people are Christians, but if they believe differently, why should they not be permitted to call their temple a “church” or use Christian symbols and literature? They certainly don’t deserve to be persecuted (in past American history, sad to say, they were), deprived of their basic rights, forced to sign papers calling their prophet unspeakable names, and murdered in the name of God.

    So why do Pakistanis believe it is acceptable to do these things to the Ahmadis? Do you really believe God is pleased with your arrogance and your lack of compassion? They have done nothing but try to worship God in peace, yet you let your fellow Pakistanis kill them, in a holy place no less, and instead of becoming outraged at the slaughter, you mock the victims and call it their own fault? The Holy Qur’an teaches you that all Muslims are your brothers. Look what you are doing to your brothers, and perhaps you will see why so much of the West is unwilling to embrace Islam!

  129. AZW

    Natasha:

    I never said a word about who’s right and who’s wrong. There have been some really sick comments here no doubt. That however , as I said earlier) cannot justify indecency. Fucking each others mothers and sisters has no justification. Please dont try to potray me as a biased person here. I have nothing to do with the two and their supporters. I raised an issue regarding what I witnessed on this so-called ‘intellectual’ forum. My intellect couldnt handle all that. I commented. And what I said was not untrue.

    Agree with the excessive use of street language used on this board right after the attacks. I realize that acquaintences of some people on this board were the victims of this brutal attack. There was a typical heartless reaction from the righteous ones as they summarily condemned the massacre with their usual ifs and buts. That act probably enraged YLH.

    Still the use of language was inappropriate and wrong, and most of the comments were removed within a few hours of them being posted.

    Second, “intellectual” is probably too heavy and ill-suited word for this forum. Most of us are generalists, who do read history and believe in a simpler world where a society is governed firmly by laws and democratic structure without any interference from religion. If this forum can provoke some serious thoughts without indulging in rhetoric or mudslinging, it is probably doing a better job for its readers.

  130. MK

    For all of you who are grieving the loss of friends and loved ones, my sincerest sympathies. Please know we are praying for you.

  131. Fountain Xue

    In the name of Allah, Most Gracious, Ever Merciful. Assalamo alaikum varahmatullah. Going through the responses from all sides was very informative, barring a few forgivable odd balls. Freedom of expression, couched in respect, even under the most trying moments speaks of high education and upbringing. Regardless of who we are, our responsibilities lie in establishing bonds of love with every being on this planet. Our religious bias, fervor or prejudice blinds us from dispensing justice neutrally to all. There is an underlying requirement for this principle to be properly implemented. It is simply this: keep the church saparate from the state. If laws were passed against Ahmadi Muslims, another regime will do the same against another group who did it to them. We have no guarantees that ours’ or theirs’ will be the power forever. How naive to think like this as students of history, unless you are not a student at all. Nowhere in the world has anyone ruled forever. Then, should we wreak venegance when the tables turn? And, tables will turn, most definitely. Pakistanis or Canadians, let us give everyone room to present their views on this forum. You will be amazed how at the end of of the day, albeit a long day, love will prevail and hatred will vanish. The global village change for the better, sooner than later. With exponential speed of communication, internet, e-laws, to say the least, human interdependence for will break through boundaries and force nations to hold on to high standards of morality, if only for the sake of commerce. Prejudice will replace ignorance – that is how we should see people, our partners in peace. Pakistan, Eqypt, Indonesia and Saudi Arabia should know that their countrymen or women will face increasingly prejudicial laws against them in France or other European countries only on account of their own doing, that too, in rampany domestic hate. Don’t you have an obligation to remove the worldwide ignomy you face in world forums evudent in global statistics that depict Islamic states as the leading violators of human rights, rights of women. And, don’t you forget that for every dime, for every tank, for every aircraft you beg these countries to protect you own freedom from your neighbors and terrorize your minorities.
    But, we have strengths, as people, whoever and wherever we are. Let us grip each others hand in friendship and love. Don’t we ses we go to lengths to schools and universities in the western world only to see those we call enemies are better brains and braver colleagues. You might end up getting taught by a Hindu whom you hated as an enemy, or work for someone you thought an untouchable…you will be the first to proclaim your loyalty to them, the same you hated here.

    If you sit with me, whoever you are, I will treat you with the highest regard, arrange for you to pray in my mosque, attend to your illness if you were a Christian, defend your rights as a human rights lawyer and judge you according the principle of “vala tukhserul meezan”.

    The world waits you, Pakitanis, waits to see you once again rise to become the President of General Assembly, President of World Court of Justice, get many Noble Prizes. The Ahmadi Muslims have done this for you and will help you get there too. We will do so in 189 countries of the world for everyone. Do not underestimate our missionary spirit. You did not see one Ahmadi say a single word against Pakistan, tragedy after tragedy, atrocity after atrocity, since 1953. Yet, you are welcome in our homes and in our hundreds of thousands of mosques around the globe; we will teach you the Holy Quran in all the major languages of the world, and teach you Love and Brotherhood through our world televesion network. We will provide you with the best medical care in our hospitals througout the world, even in our state of the art Tahir Heart Institute in Rabwah. We will provide you with emergency relief, shelter, food, first aid whereever disaster strikes you – in Kashmir, Quetta, or Indonesia. And, not that we will do so sometime in the future but in fact we do it everyday for you and have done that in the past.

    Yes, the world has witnessed how you treat us, without an iota of sense in your system of justice, or your version of the sharia or Constitution.

    If there was anyone who would not hate you for what you do to us, if there was anyone who would love you as a brother even after what you did in Lahore or Mandi Bahauddin…, take a wild guess who that would be anywhere for you around the globe – the planet that yearns for peace, love and security. Think again. The lovers of Jesus, the adorers of Moses and Abraham, the slaves of Muhammad – the servants of the much awaited Imam of the age. While you wait for him and vainly so, we have prospered have gone light years ahead, humble is spirit, honest in dealings, obedient in all respects to all laws of every country.

    Its not rhetoric. Go back and watch the video coverage of the attacks in Lahore.

  132. Khullat

    Mirza Ghulam Ahmad of Qadian says:

    “Shukr lillah mil gaya hum ko wo laal-e bey-badal
    Kya huwa gar qaum ka dil sang-e khaara ho gaya”

    Translation:

    ‘Thank God that I have found that priceless gem – God.
    So what, if the hearts of my own people have turned stone-hard towards me.’

  133. Khullat

    Mirza Ghulam Ahmad of Qadian says:

    “Baad az khuda ba ishq-e Muhammad mukhammaram
    Gar kufr een bawad bakhuda sakht kaafiram”

    Translation:

    ‘Next to God, it is the love of Muhammad that inebriates me.
    If this is kufr, then by God I am a firm kafir.’

  134. AZW

    MK:

    For the record, I am an American, a woman and a Christian. Those facts alone will likely bother some of you, but perhaps it will serve to remind you that your foul language and hateful comments are being noted far from Pakistan, by people genuinely interested in the teachings of Islam and the problems in your country.

    Welcome to the forum MK. And thanks for your comments. The discussion you see playing out in these threads is what Pakistan has struggled with over the past 63 years. This number is probably not a very large number when it comes to history of the nations; but for Pakistanis, this is almost time immemorial. Religion is playing the exact destructive role in Pakistan as it has played throughout the human history.

    What you are hearing from Mazbut or others is a sad reflection of what many of their ilk profess and practice in daily lives in Pakistan. And this is why liberal blogs irk them so much. Their unqualified righteousness and its logical transgressions are challenged day in and out here. And do shame them into realizing the foul odours that they emit due to their self-righteousness, mixed in with a hatred for others.

  135. Kashif

    Ahmadis are accused of blasphemy, because they believe, that the promised Messiah already came in 1889 in India.

    I would like to ask all non-Ahmadi Muslims:

    you are all waiting for the Messiah. What will you call him, when he comes? Will you deny his prophethood and not do Baiat on his hand? If so, you will leave the path, to which the Holy Prophet Mohammad (saw) has abliged you. And if you do follow the instructions of the holy prophet, according the current law in Pakistan you all must also be accused of blasphemy.

    Yes, the holy Prophet Mohammad (saw) was the SEAL of prophethood, which means there will be no prophet after him bringing a new teaching! But at the same time according to his prophesy in the 14th centuary of Islam the Messiah will come and there is no doubt, that the Messiah will be a Prophet. A Prophet, who will not bring a new teaching, but remind us all of the teachings of Islam.

    How pathetic is this law, that declares any Muslim following the instrucions of the Holy Prophet a non-muslim?

  136. MK

    @Kashif It is not so different with the Jewish and the Christian faiths. Both teach a messiah will come. Christians believe he already has. They have spent centuries arguing about it, and yes, killing each other and enacting unfair laws like those you live under. It doesn’t seem to matter where you are in this world, some things never change.

  137. kashifiat

    //I would like to ask all non-Ahmadi Muslims//

    It means Ahmadies are Muslims – Sorry sir ! Ahmadies are clearly Non Muslims

  138. Kashif

    Dear brother in islam kashifiat,

    //It means Ahmadies are Muslims – Sorry sir ! Ahmadies are clearly Non Muslims//

    Do you know the Hadith, where in a war a Suhabi was fighting against a kafir. The kafir was down on the floor and when he realised, that he will be killed now, he said “La illaha ilallah muhammad ur rasul ullah”. The suhabi still killed him and told about this incident to the Holy Prophet Mohammad (saw).

    The Holy Prophet (saw) got red in his face and angry and asked the suhabi “Did you look inside his heart, if he really meant it or just said it to survive?”.

    If an Ahmadi says “La illaha ilallah muhammad ur rasul ullah”, have those condemning this act seen inside the hearts of the Ahmadi?

    And: you did not answer my question! When the Messiah comes, for whom you are waiting, will you deny him?

  139. Kashif

    @MK: this is true, but no reason to “just accept the things as they are”.

    My uncle was killed in these attacks in Lahore. He was one of most kind persons, I have ever known. He was helping the poor and needy ones regardless of their faith, race, etc. All his life, since I was a little boy I remember him giving and giving and giving. He has not done harm anyone.

    Does history justify the murder of such a good man?

  140. Aisha T

    This was a very very sad day for Ahmadies all around the world.Ahmadies were DEVASTED.Many of my friends relatives passed away . The Pakistani government could have done something to prevent this because there were many threats towards the community.They could have added more protection to these mosques but they did not. There have also been many lynching and hate crimes towards ahmadies in Pakistan.INNOCENT PEOPLE DYING DUE TO THERE RELIGIOUS BELIEFS. Pakistan has become a disgrace to all ahmadies because they could not protect us. There laws against an Ahmadi saying “peace be upon you”. HOW IS THIS FAIR??? Many people took these threats to the government but the government decided to ignore them.Hopefully times will get better for ahmadies in Pakistan. Inshaalah .

  141. Aisha Thak

    Why do so many non-ahmadies worry so much about who we worship and how we read our prayer. Why are your hearts filled with so much hatred that you’d be okay with seeing us die? Is it your job to kill people .I DONT THINK SO. We are same as any other Muslims whether you want to believe it or not. You fundamentalists try to act like good Muslims but in reality your messing up the name of Islam and its real meanings DOES ISLAM SAY KILL INNOCENT people as there about to read jumma ( Friday prayer). People who support these attacks are a DISGRACE to Islam and they clearly do not know what the real Islam is. How would you feel if you were waiting for Azan(call for prayer) in a mosque waiting to do prayer and you hear gunshots and are basically waiting for your death and you see the person next to you die..Islam says you cannot disrespect someone else’s religion obviously many muslim EXTREMISTS haven’t heard of this teaching.Inshallah times will get better for Ahmadies and due to this incident NOW THE WHOLE WORLD IS AWARE OF THE PERSECUTUION OF AHMADIES IN PAKISTAN hopefully someone will take a stand and stop this.Luckily there were no kids or women in these mosques ,due to the death threats against ahmadies it is too un-safe for them. How is this fair that sunni / shia etc. women can go to there mosques without feeling any fear but an ahmadie women has no choice but to stay home due to un-safe conditions.I am so very sorry to all of Amadies who have lost there family members in this event. DISCLAMER: not all of sunnis and shias hate Ahmadies I am only referring to those who want us dead.There were many who were saddened by this even though they do not agree with our teaching. We appreciate there kindness especially in these times.

  142. mussawir

    As the Prophet Muhammad(p.b.u.h)said to his Companions that you are not allowed to kill the one who reads the kailima as you do not know what is in his heart then how can these so called mulas know whats in our heart. If the man of God, the most dearest and nearest one to Allah (the Holy Prophet(saw) coudn’t tell what was in the heart of that kafir who just read kalima when a sahabi was about to kill him, then how can anyone read the heart of an Ahmadi who says he is a Muslim. As an ahmadi and a member of the Ahmadiyya Muslim Jama’at, we leave our case in Allahs court as He is the real judge who everyone has to reply to. We always have been a law abiding citizens of any country we live in and we have never expressed our anger by hurting anyone and never will. We will just ask Allah to do justice. And this concept that has been taught to people that Ahmadis do not beleave Hazrat Muhammad (s.a) as the last prophet is wrong because we do beleave that Hazrat Muhammad (s.a) is the last law bearing prophet and what he taught is the best and the book he gave us is the last and the best books of all and there is none that can be added or excluded from Quran or his teachings. The only difference is, that we beleave that Hazrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad from Qadian is the Promised Messiah which came about a hundred years ago and revived the true teachings of islam under the guidance of Hazrat Muhammad (s.a) and he is nothing but a humble servant of Prophet Muhammad (s.a) . Its the same as other Muslims believe that Jesus(as) will come, is it that if he comes then the Holy prophet (s.a) will not be the last one anymore? No but it is that Jesus(as) will come to revive Islam. All i wanted to say is we are humans and we respect our beloved Prophet(p.b.u.h) and we follow his teachings of islam. Then why are we the only one that everyone calls non muslim. If they talk about the consitution that declaired us non muslim then it means we were muslims before that? As people say ‘because the law/constituion says you are non-Muslims then you are. What about before 1973, were we Muslims? its just insane no one has the right to call anyone non muslim as its God who will decide not people and if its just about the constitution then why dont they publish the papers of the commitee and show the truth to everyone as we are the ones who will be wrong then why dont they publish it and show the whole world the reasons we are declared as non muslims. The fact is, that if they do, everyone will know the truth that ahmadis are innocent and are the followers of Islam. That is why they dont publish it. I am so sad that no channel showed the press conference of the Nazir-e-ala from Rabwah which they recorded as we did press confrence, ARY etc. were present, whyyyy if they can show people calling us wajib ul qatal why cant they show what our representatives say although they havent said anything bad about anyone at all why are they so afraid to show the truth to make it fair. Why just one sided stories are told to innocent people to create hatred amongst them. Why cudnt they say we were doing friday prayers in the mosque not doing any ijtema and if u have seen there was even the calender of namaz times in the mosque saying fajar,zohar,asar,maghrib and ishaa.

  143. you guys are making up accusations of the ahmadiyaat Muslims. you do not know anything about them. where they came from, or what they believe in. they should not be killed this way just because of what they believe in. The ahmadi are nice and caring and don’t deserve to be treated or killed like this. they have never harmed anyone, and just want to live according to there own beliefs and you people have no right to tell them that they cant believe in there religion, or cant be called Muslims.

  144. Abu Aayan

    My Sincere, humble and deepest request to all Ahmadies, who are posting there sentiments here. It is understandable that at this hardest time of extreme pain, reactions are pretty obvious esp. when we see the other sides interpret the tragedy in a way, which no way is in line with teachings of any Islam be; it “ours” or “their” – as for sure there are different versions of Islam being presented here. But we have to stick to “our” Islam, which is the true Islam sent to human being by Allah through the Dearest of all prophets. The prophet who taught us how to react in pain and misery. You can see how our Imam reacted, and you can see how Mirza Khursheed sb reacted in the official press conference. “Inna Lillah-e-wa Inna Ilehay Rajeoon”. By throwing the similar kind of bad languages to those who do not like us and consider us worth killing, will not help. Rather it will take away our purity as well. We have to act in accordance with teachings and trainings that we got from Promised Messiah. As someone said, we always present our case to the court of Almighty Allah – who indeed is “Almighty”.

  145. yasserlatifhamdani

    Abu ayyan pai … I am not an Ahmadi or a Muslim and am not bound by “love for all hatred for none” nonsense … My abuse is the righteous abuse of a Pakistani trying to salvage his homeland from growing fire of extremism. I will curse, abuse and do whatever is in my power.

    I am sorry if this offends anyone.

    *** This Message Has Been Sent Using BlackBerry Internet Service from Mobilink ***

  146. karun1

    Enough is Enough!!
    The fight has to be taken to the enemy’s doorstep.

    I think right minded people should demand the following at any cost:

    1) Repeal of blasphemy laws
    2) Constitution to be amended overthrowing any objectives resolution, lahore resolution (anything which is against the secular fabric of this country)
    3) Allowing minorities to become head of states
    4)Expunge Islamic from Republic of Pakistan
    5) Possibly pass a uniform civil code (overthrowing any shariat rules)
    6) Wahabi Islam to be outlawed and banned

  147. Nusrat Pasha

    The Quran lays down a fundamental principle “Laa ikraaha fid deen” meaning ” There is NO coercion in matters of religion” (Quran 2:256 ). It is only a “Secular State” that can truly guarantee absolutely zero coercion in matters of religion. A so-called “Islamic State” that cannot guarantee zero coercion in matters of religion, would be guilty of contravening this fundamental Quranic principle, and would thus be anti-Islam, inspite of being named “Islamic”.

    To safeguard this sacred Quranic principle of “no coercion in matters of religion”, this State of Pakistan will have to retrace its steps. We can begin by taking the following measures:

    #1: Replace the Objectives Resolution, which presently serves as the Preamble of the Constituion, with the text [entire text verbatim] of Quaid-e- Azam’s historical 11th August 1947 presidential address to the first Constituent Assembly of Pakistan.

    #2: Remove the undeserved prefix of “Islamic” before Republic of Pakistan. The name “Republic of Pakistan” is perfect.

    #3: Repeal Article 2 of the Constitution, which states that “Islam shall be the State Religion”, for the simple reason that it tilts the balance of justice in favour of the already privileged and secure majority. Thus, by making a robust departure from the fundamental Islamic principle of “Musawaat” or equality, the state, in any case violates the spirit of Islam.

    #4: Remove “all” religious content from the Constitution, whether included or endorsed by Acts of Parliament. Quaid-e-Azam’s following words should serve as the beacon:

    a) “….Religion should not be allowed to come into Politics …. Religion is merely a matter between man and God”. [Jinnah, Address to the Central Legislative Assembly, 7 February 1935]

    b) “….You may belong to any religion or caste or creed. That has nothing to do with the business of the State.” [Jinnah, Presidential address to the first Constituent Assembly of Pakistan, Karachi, 11 August 1947]

  148. Fountain Xue

    Assalamo alaikum varahmatullah. Though extremely painful, these are fleeting moments of history. Attempts have been made to make the “Islamic Republic” a homeland of the insecure, the vain, the violent and corrupt. Let us reach out to the perpetrator, for he too, and his kind, should be prepared to face his just deserts.

    What does he need? We know his symptoms. He needs education, awareness of and understanding of basic values. His psyche has to be repositioned in an enlightened world. If he doesn’t, at least it is our duty to educate him. He knows that his hate will rebound on him. His hope, strength and therefore his strategy lies in name-calling, labelling, and violence – all signs of a sick mentality. Unless he knows his protectors in the power elite will not be there one day, he will continue to fall into the pit he has dug deep.

    Pakistan will have to change for the sake of these sick people, not for the victims, for theirs is higher Being to help. But to these sick, who see the noose tightening around their neck, we should reach out with our saner hand of help, something the government cannot and will not provide.

    As one people, Pakistanis have lost so much.

    A time of serious threats from all quarters, Pakistani people should be wary before these sick people take the nation down.

    Let us invite all sick people to talk about their sickness, their insecurity, their needs. Theirs is neither a jihad nor a faith to fight for. As enemies of Pakistan, the terrorist and his supporters are bringing Pakistan to the brink of destruction.

    Let us hear some good advice of how to reach out to these sick people. After all, they claim to be followers of the Holy Prophet Muhammad, peace and blessings of Allah be upon him.

    May be one last chance for these sick before the curtain falls on this tragedy or on Pakistan!

  149. Fountain Xue

    Assalamo alaikum varahmatullah.

    Rising above the emotions, something hard to do given the continued saga of tragedy, one needs to look at the broader picture that emerges from the prolonged engagement of Talibans with Pakistan Army in this decade.

    Now, for somepne to equate Ahmadi Muslims with Pakistan Army by fighting them at two different fronts, then to equate them with America points to deep conspiracy to destablize the region.

    How?

    What would it take to dissuade a strategic analyst somewhere in the western world from concluding that Pakistan’s nuclear assets will be targetted next by these terrorists and their supporters?

    If the police and the army could not respond to the Talibans in the heart of Lahore, then either they are not capable of timely response or they were deliberately withheld from doing so.

    In either case, terrorism in Pakistan has demonstrated clear superiority over her security forces. That is now clearly written all over the map of Pakistan. Only if you are blind you will not see it.

    Now, you have brought it on yourselves by attacking the Ahmadis. Would you like to beg at the doors of Whitehouse to send you more aid to fight India, or to fight the Talibans?

    Pakistani society must act to regain its superiority over its destructive forces before other forces take over the security and independence of Pakistan.

    Don’t kid yourself. Neither the Army nor the police or a third power is sitting idly by smoking pot. Only those who continue to target Ahmadi Muslims, the police and the Army.

    At this hour, the prayer of an Ahmadi is: May Allah the Almighty save Pakistan and its people. Ameen.

  150. Bin Ismail

    Ahmadis do not seek any certification from any worldly government or constitution regarding their faith. The 1974 declaration, branding them “not Muslims for the purposes of constitution and law” means nothing to them – absolutely nothing. If today, for the sake of hypothesis, the Parliament were to reverse this law, this reversal too, would be equally insignificant and irrelevant to the Ahmadis.

    Our law-makers are not getting the point. Passing a judgement on anybody’s faith and belief – Ahmadis’ or anybody else’s – is not even within the scope and capacity of a parliament, or for that matter any group of mortals. These mortals have to learn to stop playing God, before God chooses to remind them of who’s God.

  151. yasserlatifhamdani

    I speak on behalf of Ahmadis purely as a Pakistani. I know that they are unconcerned with what the parliament thinks of them.

    However as a Pakistani I am concerned about the state’s self proclaimed right to determine and infringe upon the rights of Ahmadis or any other sect or religion.

  152. chandrabhan

    @mazbut/Kashif,
    As an Indian, I always thought that one of my best friend, Amzad khan is just like me. We went to the same school, ate from the same tiffin and his father happened to be my family doctor. For me he was and he is Indian. A few years back, I heard his father thank god that his father decided to stay in India and see his family prosper.

    I was perplexed then as i thought Pakistan was supposed to be the heaven for sub continental muslims. Today, after 7 years when he made that statement, i agree with him. For me muslims were muslims – Wasn’t religion thought to be the glue that will hold the newly created entity (pakistan) together and give them an identity?

    Irony to that is that Ahemadiyas were at the forefront of the Pakistan movement. Just to add, In today’s pakistan even jinnah would be a non muslim, he was a Khoja, not a practicing muslim and ate pork, drank scotch and even did not know if the Ramzan was on 0n 14th of august and arranged for a lavish lunch.

    By the way , worthies, tell me who decides that the one is a non muslim and when does it stop? Today you have Shias, Ahamadiyas, Khojas, Bohras to kill. Tomorrow? I have a suggestion Whabis should kill Deobandis and they in turn can kill barelvis.

    More pious will kill the less pious and what about the wjiskey swirling Generals? Only because their guns are bigger than the Jamat and Let they can’t be touched.

    With 25 million guns in private hands actually you shd try it as the army is only 650000 in number. Go on and best of luck. You are the true leaders of Ummah. These Bedouins are desert illeterate and add to that they are allied with the white satan – America and drink whiskey(sauds). True leaders of Ummah capture the holy sites, they belong to you . Go on and fulfill the destiny of your nation. 25 million soldiers of islam with Guns.

    Shame on you guys for killing your own countrymen. If religion was such a glue them there would not have been 14 Arab nations. Morons

  153. yasserlatifhamdani

    As I read Chandrabhan’s comments, I was roused into action to respond as a Pakistani.

    But then I thought of Kashifiat and talkhaba and furry faces of jamaat e Islami ….and I’ll be damned if I unsheath my sword in the defence of these people.

    I might not agree with much of chandrabhan …but I will not fight for the crooks who have made Pakistan horrible place.

    *** This Message Has Been Sent Using BlackBerry Internet Service from Mobilink ***

  154. chandrabhan

    @Nusrat,
    What you demand if followed will leave no logic for Pakistan to exist as a state. It will mirror the Indian constitution in many ways. Only one more thing will have to be changed is from this crazy article or amendment 18 wherein the PM/President has to be muslim and you are India in letter and spirit😉

    Anyway, your fat cat generals and Army inc will never let it happen as they are the only army in world that have a state and what about your 40 feudal families?They own 75% of pakistan GDP. Nawaj shariff is another sugar baron and so are bhuttos/Jardari with their feudal serfs living a misearble life on their farms but they speak oxbridge english. Jatoi family has 80000 acres! wow, Indian govt does not allow anyone to own more than 14 acres on one name. By law every Dalit family was give an acre of Village land in 1960’s.

    Secularism for pakistan? well you need a new generation for that.

    1. Start from clean slate
    2. Confiscate every gun in the country that does not belong to the Government
    3. Throw your fat cat general behind bars – first of all that jehadi – hamid gul along with Haq/ Pasha and Kiya-nahin
    4. Nawaj shariff is a closet jehadi along with his brother. Throw him under a tank
    5. Also do the honours for that ‘gropper’ Gillani who was busy rubbing his hands on the breasts of Sherry rehman in that demonstration. what a shame? Prime minister doing that to a minister?

    You need to use the nukes on your own lands to atone for the sins of the generals or throw a couple on PINDI. India will never attack you. We don’t want your land, people or anything. We simply want to grow, earn money and uplift our poor for a brighter future. When your rabble rousers shout Jehad, it brings bad name to my 16 crore countrymen who practice the same faith and they feel apologetic about it. we are concerned about them. They have a literacy rate which is 52% , 17 % less than the country, we are worried for their integration and don’t want them to go to stupid madarassa. we want them to learn english, find jobs and be productive.

    Disband your army, use the bloody 25 million guns on them and Jamaat-e-islami along with L-e-t.

    @Ylh

    What i say is 100% truth. In today’s time Jinnah would have been declared a non muslim and killed on the streets of lahore. Good he did not live to see it but I am sure, an intelligent man he was, he realised the monster he created and that’s why he became quiet during his last days. A rabid and illiterate Maududi could influence pkaistan so much to get the Ahamadiyas declared as non muslims!

    Regarding other things, It is time that moderate pakisanis (if they exist) stand up and rescue the country. As i said we are simply not interested in a bunch of illiterate (30% literacy as per 2001 UNDP, would have gone down), indoctrinated, fanatics. We want you guys to prosper in your land and spare us your visits. we don’t want you here. Why are you guys so paranoid of India? When did you see any Hindu/Jew blow himself with a ‘Soosai’ vest in any part of the world except Lanka. Conspiracry theories are pakistan’s national passtime. With a idiot like ‘jahil’ Zaid hamid rewriting history of the land i wonder how is nadeem pracha surving?

    Prophet Zaid must be smiling at the death of these non muslim ahamadis? No politician dared attend their funeral and condemn the S-e-s or L-e-J. Shame on you and your nation for valueing human life so little and so less. Ahamadiyas shd have never left Qadian and stayed in India.

  155. androidguy

    chandrabhan,

    I don’t think Pakistanis need your prescription of what needs to be done, certainly not if your suggestion is to nuke themselves!! Relax, get a hold of yourself, and add something constructive to the debate. Just because they have 30% literacy doesn’t mean you are gonna start finger-wagging at them!

  156. chandrabhan

    @androidguy,
    I am relaxed and so are you. Are you one of those benevolent feudals or are you the rich anglophile pakistani elite aka ‘Rape’ class as few on my brit friends say? Truth is bitter to swallow and as Jinnah argued , “Muslims are a separate nation unto themselves”

    Regarding nukes, what you think you are gonna do with them? Use a Jdam on India or America or Israel? You guys must be out of your mind as any of three will wipe your nation off the face of earth along with the 170 million population. Stop wasting money on these things, soend on educating the masses ans stop these hate spewing madarssas. ooops you don’t need advise. Why shd i give it? as they say in India what goes of my father?

    Stand up for democracy. I heard islam is for democracy, Jinnah also said it so in his interview with Margret in Karachi.

    or better still keep on killing on your countrymen. As an Indian i should have said that I like it when you stew in your own juice. Get a life and stop looking for excuses, you are the youth. where is the civil society in pakistan? oops , I shd not lecture you.

    Go on ! Pakistan = real islam = killing, sorry wiping off anyone who holds a different point of view = Land of the pure = leader of ummah =Jeehard = peaceful terrorism = land of peace = 25 million guns in private hands= more islam

    Thankfully, my muslim countrymen see you for what you are. Just some internet warrior.

    May allah or whoever is there bless your endeavors . I shut up, “what goes of my father”

  157. androidguy

    @chandrabhan,

    I am an Indian. No need to respond to rest of your post as it is irrelevant after this piece of information. Yes, I would like you to shut-up. If you do so “nothing goes of your father”.

    Thanks.

  158. Bin Ismail

    @ chandrabhan (June 2, 2010 at 12:07 am)

    “…….@Nusrat, What you demand if followed will leave no logic for Pakistan to exist as a state. It will mirror the Indian constitution in many ways. Only one more thing will have to be changed is from this crazy article or amendment 18 wherein the PM/President has to be muslim and you are India in letter and spirit…….”

    Pakistan was conceived as a Secular State comprising of the Muslim-majority states of undivided India. Actually, contrary to what you imagine, if Pakistan attains true secularization, it will attain the purpose of its creation.

  159. yasserlatifhamdani

    Indeed. The rationale for Pakistan – permanent majority must not oppress permanent minority- gets destroyed everytime fascists manage to Islamize this state further.

  160. Nusrat Pasha

    @ chandrabhan (June 2, 2010 at 12:07 am)

    Pakistan was conceive and created as an unequivocally non-theocratic and forward-looking secular state. Latter deviations, though indeed catastrophic, but still were deviations. They cannot and should not be attributed to Jinnah.

  161. chandrabhan

    @android guy,
    I know you WKK types. Even if Indian you have nothing to offer the pakistani birathers🙂

    They are a martial race, ask Hamid Gul, Kiya-nahin and Syeed hafiz. They need to make use of the 25 million guns and off course the Jdams.

    @nusrat,
    Apology for the above rant. This is meant to be a wake up call. Anyway, Pakistan was conceived as everything that India was not. Other wise there was no need to have a new country except their own real estate for the Landowners and muslim elite including Army.

  162. yasserlatifhamdani

    That is a ridiculous view that has no basis in history. I understand ofcourse that Indians want to believe this just like our Mullahs.

    Pakistan was conceived as the Muslim majority version of India and nothing else.

    Ironically those who have set out to Islamize it are without exception those who had opposed its creation.

    So stop feeding off each other’s lies.

  163. Bin Ismail

    @ chandrabhan (June 2, 2010 at 1:10 pm)

    “…..Pakistan was conceived as everything that India was not. Other wise there was no need to have a new country…..”

    People generally fail to distinguish between the following 4 terms and interchange them with considerable liberty:

    1.Islam
    2.Muslims
    3.Muslim-majority states
    4.Politico-economic wellbeing of Muslim-majority states

    Out of these 4, the latter is what Jinnah actually strived for. Jinnah saw the Indian states as comprising of 2 sub-categories:

    1.Muslim-majority states
    2.Hindu-majority states

    Of these 2, the politico-economic condition of the former was evidently precarious. Jinnah stood to struggle for them. He was essentially a pro-minority legal activist. Muslims were not the only minority who caught his eye. His concern for the community of the Untouchables was even greater. He said, “in the name of Humanity, I care more for them [the Untouchables] than for Mussalmans. ” (address at the All India Muslim League session at Delhi, 1934). One could argue that this was mere rhetoric, but then how much of rhetoric do we otherwise come across in the meticulous and dispassionately practical speeches of Jinnah.

    Moreover, Jinnah never envisioned Pakistan and India as rival neighbors, one representing Belief and the other Disbelief – certainly not. In November 1946, he said, “The two states [Pakistan and India] will be friends and will go to each other’s rescue in case of danger and will be able to say ‘hands off’ to other nations. We shall then have a Munroe Doctrine more solid than in America.”

  164. Nusrat Pasha

    @ yasserlatifhamdani (June 2, 2010 at 1:12 pm)

    “…….Ironically those who have set out to Islamize it are without exception those who had opposed its creation…….”

    Prior to independence, Quaid-e Azam sent Sardar Shaukat Hayat, as his emissary to obtain support from The Ahmadiyya Jamaat and from the Jamaate Islami. The Ahmadiyya headquarters, were then loceted in Qadian and Jamaate Islami’s were in Pathankot.

    Sardar Shaukat Hayat reached Qadian, where he was received by Mirza Bashiruddin Mahmud Ahmad, then Imam of the Ahmadiyya Jamaat. On receiving Quaid-e Azam’s message, he asked Sardar Shaukat to assure Quaid-e Azam of complete and unconditional support of the Ahmadiyya Jamaat.

    When Sardar Shaukat Hayat reached Pathankot where Maududi Sahib was, he passed on the same message, only to receive a curt refusal.

  165. Moosa

    Praise be to God Who has created mercy and compassion in the hearts of His servants, whether they be ahmadis, sunnis, shias, christians, jews, hindus, sikhs, agnostics or atheists.

    I wish to thank those brothers and sisters who have expressed their condolences to the innocent human beings who have been murdered in the two mosques of Lahore. May God bless you all.

  166. Pagan

    @yasserlatifhamdani
    “permanent majority must not oppress permanent minority”

    What do you mean by “permanent minority”? Does it mean number of people belonging to minority religions (does it include Ahmediyas?) should not increase? If so, then how can Pakistan become secular? In a secular society, an individual should have right to embrace any religion / god. It should be none of the state’s business to take away that right. Of course, I am talking about secular societies.

    @chandrabhan
    “When did you see any Hindu/Jew blow himself with a ‘Soosai’ vest in any part of the world except Lanka”

    Correction here. Terrorists who blew themselves up in Lanka were Lankan Tamils irrespective of their religious affiliations.

  167. yasserlatifhamdani

    Pagan,

    Permanence is a reference to their force majeure condition of birth not their minority status per se.

    If and when a minority becomes a majority the same rule should apply against it. Usually this happens when a new country is created though theoretically what you say is possible too.

  168. umer ali

    hey i challenged that qadianis r not muslims.

  169. Bin Ismail

    @ umer ali (June 2, 2010 at 10:46 pm)

    “…..hey i challenged that qadianis r not muslims…..”

    Qadianis are the dwellers of Qadian, a small town of about 30.000 people, in the district of Gurdaspur, India. Out of the approximately 30,000 people, about 3000 are Ahmadis, making them 10% of Qadian’s total population. 90% of all Qadianis, comprising of Hindus, Sikhs and Aryas are “not Muslims”.

    That makes you 90% correct. Not bad.

  170. yasserlatifhamdani

    Sunny …apni zubaan sambhaal kay baaat karo laanti and learn the English language.

  171. Bin Ismail

    Let’s not leave the discussion incomplete. It may be appropriate to compare the terms “Qadiani” and “Ahmadi”.

    Qadiani: 1. Anything pertaining to Qadian, a small town in the state of Punjab, India. 2. A dweller of Qadian.

    Ahmadi: Someone who believes that the prophecy of the advent of the Promised Messiah and Mahdi, has been fulfilled in the person of Mirza Ghulam Ahmad of Qadian (1835-1908). The word “Ahmad” is in relation to Ahmad (the other name of Muhammad the Messenger of Allah).

  172. Bin Ismail

    Erratum: The word [Ahmadi] is in relation to Ahmad (the other name of Muhammad the Messenger of Allah).

  173. Nusrat Pasha

    The Holy Prophet had two principal names – Muhammad and Ahmad. These are not only his names, they are also his principal attributes. “Muhammad” means “the exceedingly praised one” and “Ahmad” signifies “one who praises exceedingly”. Ahmadis ascribe their name “Ahmadi” to Muhammad’s attributive name “Ahmad” because they believe, on the basis of several prophecies, that the beauty of the “Ahmad aspect” of Muhammad is destined to be manifested afresh in this age.

  174. Midfield Dynamo

    To all Ahmedis and others.
    The Jalsa Salane, USA was a congregation to have participated in, about 10,000 people from all over the world had graced the occasion, there was love for all hatred for none. Prosperity was abound, an indicator came from the parking lot, Mercedes, Lexus and Jaguars were the standard with some Bentleys and Porches too. Yet inside people were dressed modestly and there was little differentiation, everyone was doing ones own thing, willing to help others, there was a job fair recruiting the unemployed of these depressed economic times. On the whole one wondered what had happened in Pakistan, to the brotherhood between Ahmedis and other Muslims, the wrath meted out by the others against Ahmedis in the long run may be a blessing in disguise.

  175. basket

    to that person who said ” hey i challenged that qadianis r not muslims.”!!!

    who r u challenging??? urself! cant u see\read that more than half people are with qadiyyanis not against them
    so i guess your with 1 of those mullahs earnt u who lie on the name of quran and allah. also who thinks it is a right to kill ahmadis!!!
    for your kind information it dosent say no where in quran or annyyyy holly book that ahmadis are wagibul katal nd if u think thise is ur so called jihad den i would like u to go and learn the proper meaning of jihad and den come challenging ur ass! and listen yeah nowhere in quran or any Holly book it says to kill any human not just HUMAN not even a Ahmadies!!!!
    And in advance it even says in bible that “Thou shall not kill”
    other thing u guys talk like we need to spread the name of god we need to spread islam !! man u have already killed half of the true 1´s!!! if u spread islam like thise with blood on top of our religon you think people will exept it !!! they will think if muslims\ahmadis are treated thise way then imagine how other religons are treated
    muslims are getting killed by other religons but here its just muslims killing muslims!!! be scared of allah cause u have to show ur face to him what awnser will u give him then that ooo it is right to kill ahmadis??? he will then ask uu people were does it say thise!!! nd if u guys say some mullah said so then right now go to that mullah and ask him for proof!!! u guys only have guts to do the war from back not from the front!! u prooved that u guys r such cowards…. u might have heard this saying ” sunni sunai baat par yakeen naheen karna chahyee jab tak khud ankhoon say na deekh loo” u always need proff to believe in something….

    and one more question to u CHALLENGER are u trying to say that Quran is teaching us wrong and guiding us towards killing by u lot saying its wajibul katal to kill ahmadies????? well May God help u lot understand the corect wordings of islam and Quran “Ameen”………

  176. basket

    tooo yasserlatifhamdani

    if u think love for all hatred for none is nonseence then get a life cause u obviously dont want peace we ahmadis are trying to make peace but u just dont seem to understand nd no need to write sorr if i offended any1 cause ur not worth forgiving !!! so hey now its out of conntrol we have taken so much pain nd did not fight back all we want is that innocent lifes to have a happy life so ur mum wont cum on street if u just stop judging people about thier religon
    “sorry if i offence u´´ haaa wont work wive u will it den same think b4 u right kl!!!
    pray to god for forgiveness!!! astakhfurllah…

  177. I JUST ASKS ALL THE MUSLIMS WHO R THE THINK AND SHOWS AS THE COTRACTER OF ISLAM,TELL ONE THING THAT WHICH RELIGION GIVES EDUCATOIN OF AGGRESSION AGAINST OTHERS ,MAY B MUSLIM OR NOT ,U JUST PRACTICAL ON ISALAM,S MEANING ,ISLAM MEAN IS PEACE.NOW WHAT,S PEACE R U SPREADING THIS KIND OF AGGRESSION,VRY SAD .I THINK U MULLAH R THE WORST ENEMY OF ISLAM AND CRIMINER OF ITS TEACHINGS,SHAME