Traitors and Reactionaries

Dedicated to Hameed Gul and Nadeem Farooq Paracha
 
By Raza Habib Raja

The political spectrum in our country is polarized between two extremes: patriotic conservatives and the liberals. Both these extremes are often in complete conflict and accuse the other of naivety and even fanaticism. While conspiracy theories of the rightwing are well known, I have seen that liberals are not at all far behind and churn out their own conspiracy theories in which they try to absolve the PPP government of everything under the sun. Following are the “pearls” of wisdom uttered by both sides.
 
 
The Patriotic Brigade
 
1.      We are patriots and love our motherland like hell. We are macho and believe in jingoism. Our favorite terms are: Islam; nationalism; traitors; baigharat liberals; strategic location; CIA; Mosad; RAW; corruption; and independent judiciary.    Of course those who do not agree with us are traitors or liberal fanatics.
 
2.      Liberalism is an anti patriotic philosophy and has the sole aim of westernization and thus weakening of Pakistan.
 
3.      The entire world is united against Pakistan because we have the nuclear arsenal for “peaceful” purposes.  Although critics say that it is a crude copy of Chinese technology (which itself is of low quality) but since our engineers copied it therefore it is our pride.
 
 
4.      Do not give us this nonsensical argument that Pakistan ranks low in development indicators like education, transparency, health etc. This is propaganda to deviate attention from the security of nuclear arsenal. The western funded NGOs and few sell out journalists are trying to whip up these useless issues and link them up with the nuclear technology.  Since we have the nuclear bomb, we do not need stupid stuff like high education, better health and poverty reduction.
 
5.      All what is happening right now, from BB’s assassination to daily bomb blasts and even renaming of NWFP to Khyber Pakhtunkhwa, is a grand conspiracy to break up Pakistan and get hold of the nuclear arsenal. Obviously for a traitor like you, such “truths” are conspiracy theories. These are not conspiracy theories, these are hard facts. All arm chair patriots like us know it.
 
 
6.      The blasts which are openly claimed by Taliban are not carried out by Taliban. Actually these are carried by “bad” Taliban which have been planted solely to defame good Taliban. The real objective is to create a conducive environment to purge our prized possession: the nuclear arsenal.
 
7.      Democracy is a deeply flawed system and it brings only corrupt people into power. The mandate argument is nonsense as people are idiots with no clue about what is good for them. Pakistan does not need rulers who are eventually accountable to unwashed poor illiterate masses. We need a strongman with Napoleonic tendencies who can forcefully keep the integrity of Pakistan intact and can launch a massive crackdown on the only corrupt people in Pakistan: the representatives of those illiterate masses. 
 
 
8.      We do not believe in independent judiciary. We believe in the executive judiciary. Since politicians are the only corrupt people therefore judiciary should also assume the responsibility of direct rule (of course it is pretty close to it but there is still room for further ‘improvement’). The ideal set up should comprise of a central executive committee comprising of core commanders and Supreme Court judges.  Maximum efforts should be done to ensure that these are accountable only to themselves and not to illiterate masses.
 
9.      Pakistan’s problems of the past 62 years, particularly of corruption, are mainly because of Asif Ali Zardari. Do not give us this rubbish argument that even if the cases are true they pertain only to the period of 1993-1996. Zardari was responsible for corruption even when languishing in jail. Of course for a liberal fanatic like you this is beyond comprehension.
 
 
10.  Baluchistan is a part of Pakistan and moreover it provides us with the natural gas. How are we going to run our generators if it becomes more autonomous? Pakistan is not responsible for the problems there. Indian conspiracy coupled with the deeply entrenched tribal system is responsible for everything in Baluchistan. Are we responsible for the tribal system there? Stop this nonsense of provincial autonomy. We know that under the guise of such slogans, the chief objective of so called liberals is break up of Pakistan. Do not give this rubbish argument that we should give Baluchistan more royalty for the use of their natural resources. Natural resources are only for Pakistan. Any ways, what good the increase in royalty is going to do to Baluchs? These Baluchs should be taught a lesson like Bengalis and this time the action should be harsher. Of course sissy traitors like you will think otherwise.

 
The Enlightened Liberals
 
1.       We are liberals. We are more enlightened and educated than all of you.  Our favorite word is reactionary which we keep on hurling at our critics when we are in a tight spot.  Apart from that, the other favorite terms are: evolutionary democracy; complex geo politics; deep underlying currents; chattering classes; Zia’s children; and Punjabi hegemony.   Of course since you do not completely agree with us, you are a reactionary and a closet conservative.
 
 
2.       While we shout the need for self introspection for middleclass at the top of our voices, that however does not apply to us. Why? Because we are perfect and have complete understanding of this complex geo political landscape.   Our understanding is deep and common sense logic cannot be used to comprehend it. So please do not try to understand our seemingly incomprehensible jargon because reactionaries and closet conservatives like you do not have the capacity to understand deep underlying currents of ever fluctuating complex geo politics.
 
3.       We are more progressive and therefore think PPP should NOT discard the legacy politics. You see it should be ruled by a clan just like monarchy. The concept of transitional leaders based on grass root democracy is flawed and is not suited for Pakistan. Do not try to draw analogies with the West. West is West and different from us. Now please do not tell us that democracy also is a western concept. The problem with you is that you are a reactionary, have grown up on drawing room gossip and therefore your mental faculty to understand such complex “realities” is grossly inadequate. Moreover since conservative parties like PML (N) are also shaping up for a “brilliant” dynasty rule, why should the progressive parties be left behind?
 
4.       Although we are proud of the fact that PPP is different from conservative parties, however we do not hesitate to draw parallels with them where we are in a fix. So thanks to Hamza Sharif, Bilawal is perfectly justified and moreover we are of the opinion that he should nominate his (still unborn) successor right now to avoid “confusion” and resulting breakup of the party.
 
5.       Apart from legacy politics, we are also silently grateful to the conservatives for their amazing conspiracy theories (which we decry publicly). These conspiracy theories are like a template for us to weave our theories which aim at absolving PPP of all the allegations and attribute everything to the usual suspects: establishment, Punjabi chauvinism, middle class mentality etc.
 
 
6.       Zardari is not at all corrupt. He is totally innocent of all the charges. Do not come up with a half hearted defense that if he is corrupt so are others. Only others are corrupt. The Swiss courts are also wrong as they have been fed bogus evidence. Legacy of Bhutto has to continue and PPP should be ruled like an absolute monarch by him till Bilawal grows up. You do not understand the complex dynamics of PPP, therefore shut up.
 
 
7.       Words like competence and good governance have been invented just to vilify PPP. These concepts are deeply flawed and are at best abstract notions divorced from the complexities of realpolitik. There is nothing wrong with the party. Stop this rubbish mantra that the party needs to improve as its mistakes are strengthening conservative forces. PPP is perfect and all criticism is just a grand conspiracy of the establishment to desecrate the only representative of the masses. Of course establishment is being aided by naïve reactionaries like you.
 
 
8.       Lawyers movement was a grand conspiracy of the establishment aimed at maintaining its status quo. Although people filled up the streets, got their heads cracked open and literally forced the government through popular protest to reinstate judiciary, we still maintain it was only a media hyped internet revolution supported by only reactionaries. Now do not give this nonsense that Asma Jehangir, Ihtizaz Ahsan and various parts of the civil society supported it. These people are either naïve or closet conservatives. You see it is too complex which drawing room gossip mongers cannot understand. See now the judiciary is becoming over indulgent, which shows that lawyers’ movement should not have taken place and judiciary should be totally subservient to political interests.
 
9.       Do not give us this nonsense that lawyers’ movement started during Musharraf’s time and the present judges even faced wrath of armed forces for standing up. We are saying it that it was grand conspiracy of the reactionary forces to target PPP and progressive forces only. Yes we know that Benazir also supported it selectively and never publicly opposed it. But there was a deep logic behind her moves. Sorry but there is no point in explaining this logic to you as your cognitive abilities are severally restrained by your reactionary orientation.
 
10.   Although Judiciary in its initial verdict asked the government to ratify NRO from the parliament, which the PPP could not due to lack of support, we still say that it is war against people’s representatives by the sinister forces of establishment.
 
11.   If a party calls itself secular, it is absolved of all the excesses. It should get the license of target killings, extorting money, burning people alive and holding an entire city hostage. These are not crimes, you moron. These are natural manifestations of deep paranoia which has its roots in the Zia era. Look you won’t be able to understand it. The violence by MQM is not violence. It is too complicated for Zia’s children to understand exactly what it is. Only we understand it. Ok, end of the argument.

47 Comments

Filed under dynasties, Humour, liberal Pakistan, Pakistan, Society

47 responses to “Traitors and Reactionaries

  1. PMA

    I laughed when I read the part “The Patriotic Brigade” because I knew how stupid and paranoid those conservatives are. And then when I read “The Enlightened Liberals” part, I laughed some more; only this time at myself.

  2. Junaid

    I have been arguing the same for quite some time.

    The liberals and the conservatives need to sit down and sort out their differences.

  3. Anwar

    Both failures ought not be taken seriously…

  4. Danish Lib-Dem

    And what brigade Mr. Raza belongsto?
    The fence sitting brigade.

    The right wing has had enough chances in government, politics and the media. They certainly have failed. But how has the liberal side failed

    I mean, apart from a few of its most ardent (and pro-PPP) advocates such as NFP, Irfan Hussain, Kamran Shafi and Hssan Nisar, they’ve never been as prominent as the rightwing.

    The problem with the likes of Mr. Raza is that their navel gazing brand of liberalism is ridiculed by the likes of the kind of ‘left-liberal/secular’ journalists I have mentioned above. And the funny thing is, when critiquing them, Raza’s generation adopts exactly the same styyle of writring these guys are famous for.

    I mean, this could very well have been an NFP piece.

  5. Jamal

    “The political spectrum in our country is polarized between two extremes: patriotic conservatives and the liberals.”

    While “patriotic” conservatives have caused numerous killings how many have been killed by liberals? In fact the so called conservatives make the liberals a necessity.

  6. N

    ‘have grown up on drawing room gossip and therefore your mental faculty to understand ‘

    haha, brilliant.

  7. Yousuf

    “While “patriotic” conservatives have caused numerous killings how many have been killed by liberals? In fact the so called conservatives make the liberals a necessity.”

    Well said Jamal.
    How old are you Raza? Kindly get rid of this huge complex of calling ‘liberals’ extremist. By doing this young men like you are falling into a trap laid down by sheepish jihadis like Ansar Abbasi and Shahid Masood. And, for a change, get out of your own drawing room.

  8. Farukh Sarwar

    Both these groups must understand that these differences need to be solved, of course for a better tomorrow, where Pakistanis don’t have to fear terrorists. We don’t need conspiracy theories; but if you have solutions then do share them with us.

  9. Ammar

    The liberals and right-wingers have been arguing for decades and while there is no such thing as the ultimate truth, the liberals do present more rational arguments. Pakistan is entangled in a battle for its survival and we need to end the denial phase the world does not conspire against us! We need to identify the problems behind this religious insurgency and then work on it

  10. Yasir Qadeer

    I am actually out of words. This is an amazingly well written piece. It would actually be an interesting debate when liberals and conservatives sit down together to reach a common ground on the issues between them.

  11. ali hamdani

    The requirement right now is the time of a secular state where the democrats and conservatives sit down and mend their differences in the interest of citizens. We face terrorism and unity is a tool with which we can end it.

  12. hobo

    i think jamal and yousaf’s comments should be added as points in the above article

  13. hobo

    and also to some extent danish lib-dem

  14. Raza

    This was a satire and frankly I think if conservatives have gone to the extremes so have some prominent liberals.
    Moreover, my take on conservatives is harsher but at the same time I can not adhere to everything which mainstream liberals like NFP utter. This satire was not on liberalism but on the biased views of some liberal journalists.

    Absolving PPP of everything and spinning facts is hardly convincing.
    For those (particularly Mr. Yosuf and Mr Danish Lib-Dem)who thinks that I am making fun of liberalism, well you can see the following articles at chowk to actually see where I stand on issues.

    1. http://www.chowk.com/articles/15771
    2. http://www.chowk.com/articles/16090
    3. http://www.chowk.com/articles/16564

    I am 36 years old, for the benefit of those who want to know my age.

  15. I could not understand how Hamid Gul and NFP can be compared…as Hamid Gul is a bigot and have his hand in killing millions of people for his jingoism…
    And NFP, though if someone has differences with him in parts but how can he be called an extremist…
    What Raza wants to prove and where he stands himself…whether he can be a moderator in between these two, he dedicated his poor piece to…
    Whether he has any third category here, and the third category will comprise the likes of Hamid Gul and NFP as well….

  16. Its very easy to advise others to sit and resolve disputes…but what are these disputes, Can somebody enlighten us,

  17. YLH

    While there are many valid points … NFP should be compartmentalized. I consider him one of the few voices of reason has this country. I don’t think he holds some of the positions that PPP Jiyala Liberals have assumed.

  18. Raza

    Well Aliarqam, it was just a satire and on both the fringes. I have not lumped Hameed Gul with NFP the way you are saying. I have merely tried to bring out the contradictions and ansurdities uttered by both the opinon makers. Hameed Gul is being satired for his ideas and gibberish talk, not for his role in actual killings and hence the comparison with NFP
    If I had praised PPP then I am sure you would have called it a brilliant piece
    Kindly read it with an open heart. You people can not take even a little bit of criticism or satire on PPP.
    My family has historically voted for PPP since 1960s and the party was formed mere 10 houses away from where we used to live.
    However, I have tendency to see things with an open mind and I beleive in what is known as skeptcism. I am sorry I can not blindly endorse PPP’s and their supporter’s every stance.
    Moreover you can see my writer profile on chowk and there you will find out my stance on various issues.
    And moreover you have just concentrated on the lower half of the “poor” piece otherwise you would have known that my take on conservatives was harsher.

  19. md

    A great way to release frustration over the political framework of current Pakistan- a mocking commentary on the two extremely polarized sides.
    However, I have some reservations about the piece. For decades, by viewing the political opinions within the country through a binary lens, it’s easy to simplify the situation, displace opinion from it’s context, classify the two opposing camps, and then hostility and intolerance easily becomes the reactionary force used to deal with the differences. Viewing ethnic nationalism vs patriotic fervor, civil society vs. the state, local vs. the global, and the dichotomies that are so easy to latch onto, we ignore the complexities that demarcate the state of Pakistan. Marred by external and internal ails that simultaneously affect the situation inside the country, the real challenge is not to point on differing opinions but to initiate an intellectual discourse in the political real. An intellectual discourse, that in effect places political opinions within their specific economic and geographic consequences, and leads to oppression and progress. This sort of discourse will effectively reveal the varying perspectives on the past, present and future and in effect lead to an exclusion of justifications that are baseless and inconsequential. It’s easy in Pakistan, aided by the ferment media (don’t get me wrong, the media has both pros and cons), to stand up and release opinions that are detached from reality and only address a short-term political aim, often in this case for personal benefit.
    Mr. Raza, although the piece was comically effective and humorous, the daily headlines that mar our newspapers about drone attacks, bombs,
    Differences aren’t inherent. They are created. Viewing the situation as bipolar causes you to choose sides, not incorporate opinions into a progressive middle path. Often the cause of Pakistan’s ails in all provinces has been the inadequacy of the educated (not elite, ALL educated in the magnanimity of the word) to participate. With extremes such as these, even an interested participant would either back out, or go full force into any approach that seems feasible at the time.

    But then again, what would I, a student of Pakistan know about discourse. I sit on Facebook all day, planning out my social life, and joining new groups about TV shows, instead of participating in a growing student movement against the real and painful events that surround me. I have become indifferent. And in such a stage, it’s not only easy to ignore, but say “yes” and “no” to opinions around me. This post is, after all, some crap I churned out while flipping through HBO.

  20. md

    I missed out on a comment.
    Mr. Raza, although the piece was comically effective and humorous, the daily headlines that mar our newspapers about drone attacks and bombs have led me away from making funny jokes about my curfew to dealing with the situation with international representatives from the US, India, Russia and China. While they were speaking, I tried again and again to address their concerns about Pakistan’s stability in a joking manner, along the lines of you don’t know Pakistani’s. We rough it through all, and provide opportunity for any ridiculous comment to gain support. But, I can’t do that any more. Why? Because now it’s passed on from humor and detachment to pain. Pain, because the situation does matter. It is my country. Even though the political opinions of the current government or previous governments, or the military don’t match mine, I still travel with a green passport, hang a green flag in my dorm room, exclude myself from being considered Arab but enforce the point that I am South Asian. Also, precisely because I believe, no matter what our history entails, and the pessimistic future, I have a responsibility. Responsibility not to be selfish, to care about the soil that I will be buried under when I die, to answer the future generations about why we were ignorant and enjoying life when collections around me were suffering. Not saying that happiness can be attained at the global, national, provincial, municipal, or even local community level, but that instead of searching for that main goal of happiness, maybe that road towards satisfaction will be enough to attain the abstract concept of happiness. I search for academic journals, blogs such as these, music that conveys passion (of any kind) and wholeheartedly believe in social change. Social change- attained through religious, political, economic, and cultural means. We, as humans, do have that cognitive ability to create change. We just don’t have the courage to carry it out.

    – inspired by the satirical humor that is necessary to alleviate gloomy currents.

  21. Raza

    MD, excellent post and thanks for understanding that the piece was in reality just a satire on the fringe opinons prevalent in the apparently two polar sides. The central idea was to bring out the absurdities of the conservative conspiracy theory non sense and to also point out that some liberal journalists statements are actually laughable when put under the critical microscope.
    Secondly, I think that instead of comical extremes one merely brackets various opinions of so called conservatives and lefts into one lump, we need a case by case approach. In pakistan the problem is that once you have identfied yourself as a liberal, you have to show your adherence to everything which some liberal torchbearers are saying. Even if you partly disagree, you are branded as a reactionary with no understanding of “complex” geo politics. Moreover those who call others as reactionaries have contradictory and weak arguments themselves which often cannot stand the test of logical consistency.

  22. I would have to say that I agree with Ammar above. But besides that, I think though the piece makes some good points and I did laugh at some of the terminology that one often gets to hear, I for one think that there are very few people who would actually fall squarely into one or the other group above, and there are many many in the middle or who can check most of the boxes in one group but some in the other—what would we call them?

    Also, it is not as polarized as some have argued. The lawyers’ movement, for example, was a consensus movement that was supported by PPP, those further left of PPP, as well as PTI/JI and others like PML-N and so on. So there are examples of collaboration. Though there are plenty of examples of collaboration among the elites, the lawyers’ movement was important for having brought consensus at the civil society level, who quite honestly, are probably more divided than the politicians.

    PPP has people like Aitzaz Ahsan, Raza Rabbani, Zamurad Khan, Manzoor Qadir and PML-N has people like Ayaz Amir and Khuram Dastagir Khan—and that is the beauty of a mainstream party–it has a divergence of opinion within it. But yes, I do wish that these people held more sway in their respective parties than they do at the moment. And for the record, I am completely opposed to dynastic politics.

  23. Raza

    Thanks Ayesah for liking the piece. I would just like to clarify that this was just a satire and I have not tried to actually allege that NFP is similar kind of extremist as Hameed Gull.The central idea was to bring out humour on the comical absurdity of both the sides. Secondly the second hard on liberals is more subtle and tries to primarily mock at PPP apologists. It is not satiring liberalism but primarily the jiyala journalists particularly NFP. The termaninology used in the second half is of NFP and tries to mock at him.

  24. Raza

    read second hald as second half. sorry a typing error

  25. idiota

    it’s interesting. I think people like the author feel the need to appear as “moderate” in order to feel sensible and balanced. What they don’t realize is when moderation is defined as the balance between someone like NFP who would just be considered a regular guy in any civilized society and someone like Hamid Gul (apologist and facilitator for mass murderers) then the result is not really objectively moderate at all.

  26. Raza

    I think the mistake which i made was that I dedicated it to hameed Gul along with NFP.
    This dedication has taken the focus away from the content and rather has prompted this question: how can a regular guy like NFP been compared to hamid gul.
    I dedicated it to Hamid Gul for his absurd views which have been mocked in the first half of the article not for his stint as ISI chief.

    Moreover, it seems that some of the interactors have not actually read the article and have just drawn conclusions from the title’s dedication. My take on conservatives was much harsher and I just satired NFP on his PPP apologetic behaviour.
    Any how mistake was mine, I should have not dedicated it to Hameed Gul and NFP.

  27. Another thing U forgot to mention is that in the article above the second part about enlightened liberal is a rebuttal to the NFP article titled as “we shall overrun”.

  28. Raza

    Well Aliarqam, why are you concentrating on only the second part so much? My take on conservatives was actually harsher.
    The second part was an effort to point out comical absurdities of NFP’s overall views particularly on PPP and lawyer’s movement. NFP is a very intelligent fellow and I am in agreement with him particularly on religon, foreign policy, middleclass’s state of denial, taliban.
    However, I think he is on a weak wicket when it comes to PPP and hence I tried to mock him on those weak points particularly legacy politics. Why you people think that PPP can not be criticised? It is just a party and by no stretch of imagination a holy cow.And frankly my family’s history of association with PPP dates back to the fateful convention in 1967 when the party was actually formed.
    PPP should be criticised so that it can rectify its weaknesses. By praising it in a biased manner and spinning everything, the supporters are merely making it insulated from political discipline.
    Any how, one thing I know is that it is futile to convince any jiyala and my immediate family has several. Majority of them have this emotional connection with PPP and get offended even if someone points out legitimate concerns.
    You are also invited to read this article
    http://www.chowk.com/articles/16611
    Read it and then you can assess whether I am against PPP or merely wanting that party should improve.

  29. Here U are falling in the same trap U blame NFP or HG for…
    Instead of concentrating on what I have pointed out….U declare it that I am a Jiala…or I cant tolerate criticism on PPP…
    I asked U that U have set two extremes, whether there is a mid point…comprising the likes of HG and NFP as well…
    U have chosen two diverse and totally different peoples to represent as HG is a person who physically was involved what he is saying today…and NFP is just a writer…
    U again and again insist on your family affiliations with PPP, on the other way you oppose dynasty politics…is it necessary to be a PPP supporter when Ur family is in it…
    In my case it is not…my family is a typical pashtoon religious family, my elder brother has converted provincial election in 2008 on MMA ticket and my father is a Tablighee jamaat member…but is it really matter or is this have any connection with what my political ideas are…
    Who told U that am upset with Ur criticism on PPP, No I respect freedom of opinion and its Ur right what do U think. But when political stand U have…
    Write a well argued piece on critically examining PPP Govt. and on the pros and cons of dynasty politics, I will publish it on LUBP…

  30. typo t9 error…my elder brother has contested(instead of converted) 2008 election…not

  31. Raza

    I have already written an article on PPP and I provided you a link also.
    I have made it extremely clear in post after post that I did not lump together NFP with HG the way you are saying. KINDLY SEE THE ABOVE POSTS. I am again and again saying that HG was mocked because of his views and so was NFP. In retrospect it was my mistake to dedicate it to those two. Most of the people think that I am alleging that NFP is like HG. That was not the purpose. The sole purpose was to point attention to comical absurdities.
    The reason as to why I keep on refering to PPP is that normally their workers and supporters can not tolerate any criticism and when some one does criticize, he is immediately branded as PPP hater or a reactionary. That is why I wanted to make clear that in reality I am a supporter and so is my family.
    I will send you a write up on dynasty politics. Kindly tell me your e mail.

  32. Raza

    And moreover, dynasty politcs refernce is with respect to bhutto clan..leadership of the party. If my family has supported PPP and I support it CONDITIONALLY (though in last elections I voted for Ayaz Amir), it is not dynasty politics.

  33. My email ID is available in my FB profile info…I will be pleased to post a critical post written by U on our blog…

  34. Ummi

    It seems some drunk PPP jiyala like Lala Fazaul Rahman have jotted it down to support Zardari

    Raja Mian, every Muslim’s favorite term would be Islam. If you are non-Muslim or hardcore Shia ,Agha Khani or Qadyani then definitely you will not like Islam around you

  35. Jeera Blade

    Ummi,

    I’m not intending to imply insult or judgment here but I am curious to know in order to be able to respond to your post in an appropriate manner, so please forgive what appears to be, but in fact is not intended as, an insulting question: Are you stupid?

  36. Vajra

    @Jeera Blade

    You asked the question I have always wanted to ask, but never brought myself to, for a similar fear of being grossly misunderstood. If you do get a reply, I would be interested to know what it is.

  37. Ummi

    Jeeriya!

    Had I been stupid I would have made a post similar to Raja Chohan.

    Between for people who do not live in Pakistan, in Pakistan religious extremism posses more in non-Wahabi sects like Mutta preacher Shias who beat their infants with wife in the name of Hussain, Agha Khanis who hijack all roads during their prayers and Bohri who always wear their typical religious clothes.

  38. Ummi

    replace *wife* with knife. Though in reality both are same😉

  39. Vajra

    @Jeera Blade

    Between for people who do not live in Pakistan, in Pakistan religious extremism posses more in non-Wahabi sects like Mutta preacher Shias who beat their infants with wife in the name of Hussain, Agha Khanis who hijack all roads during their prayers and Bohri who always wear their typical religious clothes.

    A bit bewildering. What is this in English?

    I suppose the comment was in reply to your question. Was it a stated ‘yes’ or a stated ‘no’? Whatever was stated, the purport, one must conclude sadly, is one and the same, and the answer is all too clear. It is an institutional matter, a matter to be dealt with only institutionally.

    What do people do in day-to-day life to cope?

  40. AZW

    Vajra:

    Ummi has kindly replied to Jeera @ 10.34 and 10.39 p.m. These replies serve to remove any doubts that anyone might have regarding Jeera’s question.

    As far as I can tell, full effort was made to reply in English.

  41. Vajra

    @AZW

    I stand corrected. It is obvious that this inability to spot the obvious is due to mental laziness, and it will be my endeavour to apply myself more. Also it will be necessary to be less supercilious about the language used and to try to understand the broad brush-strokes at least.

    Your intervention was timely and appropriate, and, on revisiting the two replies in question, the true response to Jeera’s question (I hope that it will not be considered disrespectful if I use a shortened form of his name, since we haven’t met formally) became quite evident.

    Note to myself: take things more seriously.

  42. Jeera Blade

    Vajra,

    My question was *meant* to be an insult, it was a rhetorical question. Whatever the answer might have been, it was deemed to be seen as a confirmation of my affront. Obviously with his intelligence he didn’t get offended. But I agree with you that, it is an institutional problem, ‘to be dealt with only institutionally.’ I bet they will diagnose sublimated genital guilt.

  43. Ummi

    wow

    Jab apna belief ki baat aye tu samjh nahi arha? cool!

    What I said that Shias,Agha Khanis and Bhori show off their religion more than anyone ese in Pakistan. They enforce their views on others by wearing their religious clothes and other things. Shias beat their kids with knives in the name of Hussain

    Between Raja Mian, do you have any doubt if someone called Liberal Beghairat? I think they are not only beghairat but Madar Pider Azaad too.

  44. Vajra

    @Jeera Blade

    Of course it was an insult, and a well-selected, well-deserving and well-placed insult, too. I should wish an insult to be of this discrimination and finesse, regardless of whether I was at the receiving or the giving end.

    Consider me a fan.

    The responses were banal and uninteresting; it is an institutional problem. Your diagnosis is most interesting; I can extrapolate from this, and am forming the hypothesis that many similarly afflicted on our side of the line are in fact suffering from sublimated feelings of genital inadequacy.

  45. Yousuf

    So that means Ummi IS stupid.

  46. Vajra

    @Yousuf

    More or less.

    Depends on the phases of the moon, probably, whether it is more or less. Probably the only person who can say with certainty is Jeera Blade. Not for nothing do you find me at his lotus feet, rapt in admiration.

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