Tariq Ali is wrong on the Taliban and Hezbollah

I read this insightful comment by Imtiaz Baloch on an internet platform. The piece argues in a more nuanced  manner the issue of national question and the struggles. In particular, it challenges the linear and [ironically] misinformed views of Tariq Ali who praised the Taliban and Hezbollah while mocking the Baloch and Sindhi national movements. I am grateful to Imtiaz Baloch for having agreed to this cross-posting at the Pak Tea House. Readers may or may not agree with the position but it surely brings a fresh perspective to this tricky and complex questions. (Raza Rumi, ed)

Last week the British-Pakistani orator came to Toronto for a talk. It was with great hope and enthusiasm; I arrived at the University of Toronto auditorium on Nov 14, 2008 with my Baloch, Sindhi, and Kashmiri friends to listen to the man famous for his revolutionary views and eloquent speeches.

Tariq Ali’s writings had always been a great source of inspiration for us under General Zia’s military rule, fighting for democracy, justice, and equality in the Pakistan society.

I am from the generation of progressive student activists who had witnessed the rise of ‘jihadi culture’ in Pakistan ; funded, armed, and trained by the Pakistan Army, ISI, Saudis, and the CIA. My generation was also a witness to two revolutions in the region on the borders of Pakistan – Afghanistan ’s (Soar) April revolution of 1978 and Iran ’s anti-Shah/ uprising of 1979, later stolen by the Mullahs.

But alas, my expectations were terribly let down.

Thinking of the street fighting days of the 80’s, my thoughts were interrupted by the voice coming from the podium of a man I thought was the living embodiment of an era when Marxism, revolution, and Che Guevara were the idols worshipped by the left-wing students world over.

Tariq Ali spoke eloquently and took us on a journey into Palestine , Lebanon , Iraq , Afghanistan , touching briefly upon Pakistan and then rocketing back to the recent US elections and the crisis in the capitalist world. In his speech, he praised Sheikh Nasarullah’s Hezollah in Lebanon as “heroic”, conveniently forgetting to mention this group’s ideological, financial, and military support from the Islamic Republic of Iran and Syria . The two states, one theocratic and the other a dictatorship – both infamous for brutally repressing their own people including torture and murder of communists.

In addition, to my amazement, Tariq Ali chose Hamas as the Palestinian voice of resistance and not PFLP or DFLP for that matter, yet another Iran-backed Islamic group striving for an Islamic state.

Finally came the bombshell. Instead of denouncing the atrocities carried out by the Taliban, the beheadings and the throwing of acid on the faces of schoolgirls, Tariq Ali eulogized the neo-Taliban as an indigenous movement representing Pashtun nationalism.

Suddenly it all made sense, for Tariq Ali. For him, the world had shrunk to the two opposite poles – America on one sides and the global Islamic militancy. Anything anti-American would do, regardless of its nature being oppressive, anti-progressive, anti-democratic and anti-human.

What Tariq Ali said that evening would make Jamaat-e-Islami chief Qazi Hussain Ahmed and former Director General ISI Hameed Gul (godfather of the Taliban) applaud and dance with joy.

Unfortunately, that was not the end of the story. He also managed to present one dramatized case of forcible disappearance of a Pakistani citizen Aafia Siddiqui now in US custody for alleged links with Al-Qaida.

He spent considerable time talking about Aafia Siddiqui, painting a picture of a victim of American atrocities, but he did not utter a single word about the thousands of Sindhi and Baloch political activists who were disappeared by the ISI under Musharraf’s military rule and ended up in the torture cells.

Speaking of torture, Tariq Ali slammed Hasni Mobarak’s Egypt , but a kept a complete silence on the brutal practices of torture by the Islamic Republic of Iran where thousands of progressive activists have been tortured and hanged publicly. He did not utter one work against Saudi Arabia , an apartheid state where racism and repression are state policy.

Most amazingly, Balochistan was completely absent from his speech, where for the last four years people are facing a brutal military operation unleashed by the Musharraf regime. The atrocities include aerial bombing of villages by PAF; killing of innocent civilians including women and children; forced displacement of 200,000 Marri and Bugti tribal families; arrest, torture and targeted killing of activists and leaders; forced occupation of people’s land by the state to build military cantonments; development of testing sites for nuclear weapons causing health and environmental hazards.

HRCP chief Asma Jahangir, who does not claim to be a revolutionary and who hails from Lahore , has done a magnificent job in risking her life to collect all the data from the remote and restricted areas of Balochistan and in bringing the facts to world’s attention.

Tariq Ali’s evasiveness from the Baloch national question is not just a matter of ignorance of the facts, but rather based on his worldview related to the narrow vision and what fits in it. This became obvious from his response to a question on Balochistan asked from the audience. While claiming his support to Baloch rights and saying that military operation was not a good thing, he then balanced it off by dismissing Baloch nation’s right to exercise the right of self determination, because of the involvement of the “big powers” and their interests in the region.

Tariq Ali stands for the right of self determination for the people of Palestine , but not for the people of Balochistan or Kurdistan .

Later that evening at a private dinner he further explained that formation of new independent states was not on the world agenda therefore the best option for Baloch and other nationalities is to be part of a South Asian Union in which Pakistan will exist as a loose federation. How is that possible and why would Pakistan’s military sacrifice all its multibillion dollar assets, businesses and political power to become part of South Asian Union? During the debate, Tariq Ali also made a passing remark that Baloch should join Islamic Republic of Iran, knowing very well the atrocities unleashed on Iranian Baloch by the state.

It felt like asking the sheep to leave the flock and join a pack of wolves. What could be more insulting coming from a world-renowned scholar of Tariq Ali’s stature?

Moreover, when he was reminded of the fact that Iranian Balochistan also needs to be liberated from the repressive theocratic state, he simply looked the other way and smiled sarcastically. His response to a question regarding Sindh’s national rights was simply a joke to the people of Sindh. He said, “President Zaradari is now in power”. This was an utter disregard for Sindh’s national problems.

In his speech Tariq Ali spent a full 30 minutes making fun of Asif Zaradari, mocking his English accent and sinking to a level of attack that reflected a bitter personal animosity. There was not a word of criticism of Nawaz Shariff or General Musharraf.

Tariq Ali made no mention of the heroic struggle of people like Pervez Hoodbhoy and Ahmad Rashid, who has criticized in previous writings. In listening to Tariq Ali, it seems one was listening to some Pakistan Army Colonel lecturing us Baloch to fight the so-called “Sardari nizaam”, as if Sheroo Marri and the late Mir Bizenjo were sardars.

In general, Tariq Ali’s attitude and behaviour towards Pakistan ’s nationalities question sounded like an echo coming from Islamabad ’s corridors of power representing the voice of a dominant nationality that has colonized Baluchistan for 60 years, yet whose intelligentsia, including the Left is woefully oblivious of their own role as accomplices.

There seemed a pattern emerging from the speech and the discussion that completed the picture. The old Left and the neo-Taliban have bonded into a new friendship with a common cause – Bush-bashing, for which, Islamic populist sentimentalism, state and strong army have become important tools of the trade. Today, it is not surprising to see former Marxists collude with Jihadis, but to see Tariq Ali in that role was a huge let down.

Therefore, Pakistan and Iran as states and their military as an intimidating force are non-negotiable in exchange for the national emancipation of oppressed nationalities. What lessons have we learnt from the Iranian left movement and their self-destructive path of alignment with Khomeni on anti-American basis? And how that had resulted in the complete abolishment of the Left experience in Iran .

That night when I was finally leaving for home, all sorts of questions were rising in my mind. For some reason, the night seemed slightly darker than usual. The only beacon of hope was the faraway mountains of Balochistan where the sound of thunder was the call for freedom.

Imtiaz Baloch is affiliated with the Baloch Human Rights Council of Canada, Toronto, Ontario

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76 Comments

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76 responses to “Tariq Ali is wrong on the Taliban and Hezbollah

  1. YLH

    Another example of the dogma that plagues the left … both Imtiaz Baloch and Tariq Ali are examples of this.

    The former doesn’t recognize the archaic and brutal sardari nizam which is the main force behind the so called “Baloch nationalist struggle”… the latter does not see the religio-fascism of the taliban…

    Both are seduced by the romance of revolution. I say we’ve had enough of these tea-cup revolutionaries… let us embrace western capitalism and liberal democracy as Pakistanis … and get on with the programme.

  2. YLH

    PS: One face of Baloch nationalism is Israrullah Zehri of BNP…. who declared that burying women alive was part of Baloch culture and national heritage…

    Such culture and national heritage ought to be thrown into the sea really.

  3. Majumdar

    Yasser mian,

    let us embrace western capitalism and liberal democracy as Pakistanis

    And Indians as well. Ameen to that.

    The problem with left is that anyone who is anti-US becomes a hero, so what if the other part of his agenda is suicide bombing, honour killing etc.

    Regards

  4. YLH

    Majumdar

    Frankly these dogmatic takfiri leftists going on about this stuff day in day out is just a continuation of the utterly ridiculous Stalin v. Trotsky – industrial workers v. peasants who make better revolutionaries debate blah blah… both Trotsky and Stalin were WRONG. So was Lenin … only Karl Marx has an original contribution and had he lived he would have updated his ideas…

    Communism has BEEN defeated. Marxism is a failed idea- Soviet Union is now firmly in the dustbin of history where it belongs…

  5. YLH

    The leftists are the long lost siblings of the Islamists mind you…

  6. Aliarqam

    And Capitalism works????

  7. Majumdar

    Ali mian,

    It does. All the wealthy countries are capitalist states, which have evolved to become capitalist societies with a significant welfare characteristics.

    For commie and Islamist societies just take a look at North Korea and Talib Afghanistan.

    Regards

  8. YLH

    Yes Ali … it does. It might not be perfect but it is still the highest point in human evolution.

  9. KP

    Most of the neo-cons in America are formers leftists too, with their interventionist philosophy.

  10. sherryx

    A very good post. and Mr Baluch please dont mind Tariq Ali, poor chap, dont take his word seriously when it comes to Pakistan. He has un resolved conflicts.

    and YLH , leftist are long standing siblings of Islamism, just a few days back your dying to prove your Lefti credentials, “oh i support land reforms”

    resolve your identity conflict, and please these rants on communist n left etc now look a bit childish, come out of your dogmatic slumber, just see that your views on nationalists of Baluchistan and Paktoonkhoa are same as Molana Fazul ul Rahman and Haroon Rasheed, so i hope to see you with them in a protest rally against “greater paktoonistan”. Only you , JUF-F and Jamate Islami and PML-N seem to to remember it.
    You must be proud , your history of NWFP is being promoted by Fazul ur Rehman and Haroon Rasheed
    Congratulations Jinnah ka Pakistan, Jesus! what a farce

  11. YLH

    My use of the term “leftist” was for the dogmatic takfiri type fundamentalists… of which you are a shining prince.

    I do consider myself a left of center because of my position on issues that MATTER… separation of church and state, a rational welfare state within the capitalist system, women’s rights, land reforms and agrarian taxation to weaken the feudal system and strengthen the industrial class, the legal and political rights of the working class … equality of opportunity… I think these are positions of the left as I understand them… they are certainly not an arbitrary allegiance to some grand anti-imperialist front… that dogmatists like you belong to.

    Similarly- just because a person x, y and z hold a position on a certain issue doesn’t mean that the position is automatically wrong. Believe it or not even Haroon Rashid can be right once in a blue moon … after all you are right once in a 100 times as well… and if I agree with you on something once in a while doesn’t mean I automatically become a takfiri “left” fundamentalist fanatic like you do I? Same goes for the freaks on the right who “left” fundamentalists like you ally yourselves more often than I do.

    After your position against the US is identical to Ossama Bin Laden, Taliban, Maulana Fazlurrahman, Hamas, Hezbollah and all other such fine organizations.

  12. Aliarqam

    Qazi Javed in his book
    “Pakistan mey falsafiana rujhanaat” (i.e Philosophical tendencies in Pakistan) Says…
    Most of our Pakistani writers,thinkers or intellectuals favourite tendency is to be in the middle…non affiliated…for the sake of cursing all and get safe from criticism….and Majumdar…U are always following the same pathway set by my patriotic Pakistani capitalism loving Hamdani…and the same issues…even the same terms..Commie or islamists etc…Do U have issues of your own to share with us…as the extremist colonal who commit bomb blast…or U indian have gone through your grey areas now U are issueless…

  13. Aliarqam

    As for as Capitalism as a system is concerned….whether someone put us in any category….
    According to Ubaidullah Sindhi any tendency who can lead the system to capitalist features can never be tolerated….
    And these so called anti americans…who kill us..and when we come to the funeral they kill us again….these all the fruits of drawing lines among the people on religion basis….first they divide now they are dividing again…and so called liberals…who run hatred compaign against those who are victims of extremism….

  14. YLH

    “your history of NWFP”

    The history where I expose Fazlu’s father’s collusion with Pushtun nationalists?

    Fazlu is a dishonest crook. And so are you may I add.

  15. Aliarqam

    So for the role of Mullah is concerned…those who had committed the unforgettable crime of standing with the congress against Partition….and those who were with ML….
    Look at the difference of reactions…
    The first ones have unanimously with 6000 ulemas…passed a resolution against Terrorism….and what the allies of ML are doing…the half hearted Fatwa…which is only against those whose JIHAD philosophy is against Pakistan….They have the license to have a JIHAD…whenever and wherever we want …

  16. YLH

    Ali Arqam ….

    Who are you deceiving?

    The father of Jehad and Taliban is none other than Maulana Fazlurrahman and Maulana Mufti Mahmood… who stood by the Congress.

    So you are wrong again. Name one Mullah who supported the Muslim League who is in any way associated with the Jehad in Afghanistan. I challenge you.

  17. YLH

    PS: This is typical of the Self-proclaimed left… when can’t argue… resort to outright lying….

    I expected better from Ali Gram… but apparently he is not very honest either.

  18. YLH

    What? Cat got your tongue? Suddenly the bluffs are not working are they?

  19. YLH

    Now that the revolutionaries have crept back into their caves…. could some one else (not of takfiri persuasion) please tell me what it is about my attack on Israrullah Zehri (the baloch nationalist who said burying women alive is Baloch national heritage) that elicited such a knee jerk response from the Politburo here… that they had to bring in NWFP, Greater Pakhtoonkhwa, Fazlurrahman blah blah?

    It seems to be that our politburo here is perpetually insecure and standing on thin ice… like their Islamist allies.

  20. YLH

    The following post awaits a response from Politburo as well- even then … the revolutionaries hid in their cave.

    YLH
    November 5, 2008 at 4:42 am
    Dear Sherry

    The fact that you are failed to respond to my article and are now trying to score points here shows that you don’t have an argument about the issue at hand- you lied about US not allowing a Socialist Party in 2008. You lied- you were caught and you don’t have the decency to admit it- hence your tangential arguments…

    Now coming to the issue that keeps giving you heart burn…. The great Ataturk’s secularism (one of the reasons I admire the great man as much as Jinnah) and Turkish Nationalism’s rebellion against the Islamic identity is well known and you are not making any real point when you state the same because I agree that it was a rebellion against centuries of Islamic dogma. However since Turkish Nationalism was a nationalism exclusively of Muslims of Anatolia and was centred around it, it was – and there are no two ways about it- a Muslim Nationalism- Anatolian Muslim Nationalism to be precise. In Anatolia, the word Turk was synomymous with Muslim… which is why Ataturk’s followers were exclusively Muslim during the War of independence and the Treaty of Laussane created religion as ethnicity principle for the exchange of populations. Ziya Gokalp’s “Principles of Turkism” is the bible of Turkish Nationalism and you ought to read instead of mouthing off. Surely you don’t know more about Turkish Nationalism than Ziya Gokalp who is called the Father of Turkish Nationalism. Lets not forget where this discussion started… you were of the view that Pakistan being the demand of a Muslim people exclusively could not logically be secular and I showed you that in Turkey not only was the struggle mobilized around Muslim nationalism, but Ataturk during the war of Independence used Islam as a slogan much more than Jinnah or ML ever did. Yet Turkey under Ataturk did become secular and did redefine Turkish identity along territorial lines.

    Kemal Ataturk was by circumstance of birth a Macedonian. It was his religion and his training as an Ottoman Turk officer that made him part of the Turkish military elite which had grown increasingly wary of foreign interference in Ottoman Empire. Young Turk Revolution, of which Kemal Ataturk was an insignificant part, was the first expression of the new discontent that Turkish Army officers felt. Interestingly one of the main ideological inspirations for the Young Turk Revolution came from the works of Syed Ameer Ali, one of the founders of the Muslim League and Muslim nationalism in South Asia. Turkey’s defeat in the First World War set the stage for Kemal Ataturk. Facing humiliation of an unfair treaty, allied occupation and Greek invasion, Kemal set about mobilizing the Muslims of Anatolia around the slogans of Islam and Jehad against the invading “infidels” . He established in Ankara a national government and won tremendous victories defeating the Greeks and forcing the allies to re-negotiate a new treaty at Lausanne which legally established the Turkish state in essence prompting his foremost biographer, Andrew Mango, to declare that “Ataturk won his place in history by directing the successful resistance of the Muslim inhabitants of Anatolia” (Page 532, “Ataturk” by Andrew Mango, 1999 – Overlook Press, Woodstock and New York).

    The word “Turk” was virtually indistinguishable from the word Muslim in European imagination. It had the same sense “Moor” once had in Spain or the word “Saracen” had come to mean in Orientalist literature. (It might have extended beyond Europe. Even in Kasur, Bulleh Shah had famously declared that he was neither a Hindu nor a Turk –Turk meaning Muslim). It was on this principle that the Treaty of Lausanne set up the exchange of populations between Turkey and Greece. Treaty of Lausanne was the first of its kind as it established “religion as ethnicity” as a legitimate principle in international politics. Zionists in Palestine and Muslim Nationalists in South Asia replicated the same principle two decades later.

    Kemal Ataturk himself declared: “The Turkish Nation is the main component of the Turkish state. But there are other components. They do not have to share the Turkish nation’s Muslim religion.” In other words, Ataturk himself was clear that Turkish Nationalism is a form of Muslim Nationalism but he sought to establish a new Turkish nation, in the same vain that Jinnah after partition tried to inculcate an inclusive Pakistani identity which embraced all communities regardless of religion caste or creed. Unlike Ataturk, and unfortunately for us, Jinnah died soon after and did not get the opportunity of establishing this new nationalism and complete the transition from group nationalism to territorial nationalism.

    Kemal Ataturk’s modernist nationalist impulse right from the beginning was borne out of the discontent that young Muslim Ottomans felt when they saw the Muslim district (Stambul) of Constantinople in darkness but the Non-Muslim district merry with street lamps and cafes and whorehouses. The Ottoman Empire had implemented the “Millet” System which allowed for considerable judicial and political autonomy to various religious communities. Thus Muslims of the Ottoman Empire were handicapped not just by their arrogance but also Islamic law which placed restrictions against alcohol, usury etc. Thus at the turn of the 20th century, Non-Muslim Ottomans prospered while Muslim Ottoman elite (or the “Turks”) saw a steady decline in their fortune. This had a profound impact on Kemal Ataturk. The modern age for the Muslim world to which Albert Hourani and Eqbal Ahmad referred to saw the rise of a progressive Muslim nationalism based on reform and modernity. Eqbal Ahmad had ascribed secular Jinnah’s conversion to Muslim nationalism to this progressive aspect of it. However this progressive Muslim national consciousness was first expressed by Turkish Nationalism. Contrary to what Ali says in his article, even Kemal Ataturk’s attempts to modernize and westernize Turkey were also an expression of his latent Muslim nationalism. To him Islam was the religion of the Turks but he sought to modernize and Turkify Islam to better suit the Turkish nation. Contrary to the claims made by Ali, Ataturk did not ban Azan in Arabic but tried to replace it with a Turkish version. In this he was following the ideology and vision of Mehmet Ziya Gokalp, the philosopher held to be the “Father of Turkish Nationalism” and one of the biggest influences on Kemal Ataturk.

    Gokalp had written the famous pamphlet “Principles of Turkism”, the bible of Turkish Nationalism. In this he had defined the Turkish Nation as Turkish speaking Hanafi Sunnis of the region of Anatolia, Muslim in faith and European in civilization. Gokalp’s grandiose vision was of a Republican Turkey, modern, Sunni Muslim and European, leading a Pan-Islamic and Pan-Turkic alliance of nations towards modernity and civilization. It was he who inspired Allama Iqbal who mentions him in his “Reconstruction of Religious Thought in Islam” lectures. Like Iqbal, Ziya Gokalp was also inspired by Nietzsche and took his “Superman” concept and applied it to the Turk. Iqbal’s Mard-e-Momin was thus twice removed from Nietzche’s Superman losing its racial teeth. Ataturk modified Gokalp’s vision by dropping Pan-Islamic and Pan-Turkic ambitions but he remained committed to a modernized and Turkified identity for Muslim of Anatolia.
    Now the question if Kemal Ataturk ever invoked religion or made pledges of Quran and Sunnah? The simple and straightforward answer to that is many times more than say Jinnah ever did. Ataturk’s speeches between 1917-1922 were replete with references to the Holy Prophet, Islam and Muslims. Jinnah’s appeal to religion had always been to establish congruence between Modern governance and Muslim cultural ethos. In contrast Kemal Ataturk used the emotive appeal of Islam to wage his valiant struggle against the invading Greeks. In his famous speech to the Turkish Parliament in 1928 he explained the need to do so, submitting that at the time an appeal to religion was necessary to secure the future of the Turkish Nation. Ataturk’s harsh treatment of religion more so after 1928 was also a result of his latent Muslim nationalism for he had begun to see religion had caused Muslims to stay away from trades and commerce and left them backward. Muslim Nationalism does not require an affirmation of orthodox Islamic identity. At times, Muslim nationalists may use Islamic symbols to mobilize their people as the Turk Nationalists did in the war of independence and Muslim League during the Pakistan Movement, but at the heart of the Muslim nationalist project is always progress and sovereignty for its constituents. Thus it made perfect sense that Ataturk moved so forcefully and decisively towards dis-establishing Islam from the state after having used it successfully to mobilize the Turks. Anyway I find it strange that you keep jumping to this topic which you are utterly and totally wrong about.

    Now coming to the other issue:

    Why does it bother you when I speak of Jinnah’s Pakistan? You keep giving the Azaan of socialism and communism blah blah … now that is the biggest dogmatic fantasy that has been defeated so many times that it is not even funny.

    It seems that my description of Nixon as a true friend of Pakistan has bit you quite hard. Nixon was not in office from 1973-1992. My suggestion is that you read a few of his books – in particular my favorite “seize the moment” in which he discusses pivotal and important states … you will see why I describe Nixon as an exception and not the rule.

    I have no illusions about Obama beyond what is clear: Obama will be more forthcoming to a civilian constitutional government in Pakistan instead of a military one. He will probably be more India-leaning but that helps those who want to see Pakistan Army out of politics. So it is not like I consider Obama a friend ….but I consider him a democrat and I consider him good for democrats everywhere.

    For all your wailing and flailing against Capitalist democracy, it has delivered on a very crucial day. Its been a long time comin’… but it has come. A black President who speaks for the middle class (yeah I know you indifference for the Petit Bourgeoisie blah blah but to some of us middle class is important) will sit in the office very soon. The Western capitalist democracy has shown the world that it is inclusive, liberal etc… Had the western democracy been more concerned with “tokens”, it would have had a black president long ago… but Western Capitalist system brings slow but permanent Progressive change. US is no longer a White Anglo-saxon nation…it is now a multicultural, multiethnic representative state and it arrived there through “capitalist” democracy.

    Your communist fantasies on the other hand delivered only authoritarian states, widespread persecution, failed economies, massive and large scale poverty, exploitation of many many at the hands of a coterie of a select few….

    You mentioned Orwell above… you ought to read Animal Farm and 1984… and internalize those lessons.

  21. Aliarqam

    Mr Hamdani or Majumdar in disguise….
    Fazlur Rehman and so on JUI….is another face of Muslim league fanaticism…ML(N),JI,PML(Q) all are the faces…Ur limited knowledge of history has never enlightened you that…JUI was association of those Ulemas..who were against Jamiat Ulema hind…and as for as the support of Afghan War….U should bury your nose in sand…Ur whole system of Pakistan..based on the political use of islamic slogans…was standing with Jihadis….
    Ur smart politician had once bluffed the millions of muslims in the name of religion and now we are facing the consequences….and people like U…liberal fascists…with the feeling of defeat…are try to do the same..as Jinnah was calling Azad ”show boy”
    but whose integrity can never be questioned…even your only favourite Seerwai has appreciated him…

  22. Aliarqam

    Offsprings of Molana M Shafi….justice Taqi Usmani,mufti Rafi Usmani,mufti wali razi all were supporters of Afghan JIHAD…and these peoples are the followers of Ashraf Ali Thanvi…
    Rafi Usmani has written a book on the miracles happened to Mujahids in the war named as
    “PURASRAR BANDEY”

  23. YLH

    Ali Arqam,

    I am afraid you are completely and totally wrong as usual. Little knowledge is very dangerous and you’ve shown us WHY.

    Mufti Mahmood was an avid member of Jamiat-e-Ulema Hind, a follower of Madni and he remained an ally of the Congress Party till the end. His famous statement was Thank god we were not part of the sin of making Pakistan … his son Fazlurrahman was behind the founding of taliban.

    It was in 1949 Mufti joined up with Usmani’s Jamiat-e-Ulema Islam… and by 1956, he expelled the Ihtesham-ul-Haq Thanvi and other Pro-Muslim League elements from the Jamiat-e-ulema-Islam. Atleast learn to be honest once or twice in your life Ali Gram.

    Your point about PML-N etc is also based in ignorance of history. The original PML died in 1958…. The PML-N + Q and A to Z are all parties that use the name and nothing else. After all Javed Hashmi admires Maududi not Jinnah.

    And Sabyasachi Majumdar is based in Calcutta… you can go on claiming what you like but you’ve shown us your real face Ali.

  24. Aliarqam

    @YLH
    or Majumdar
    or PMA (missing ya so much)

    I have responded to your challenge…Mufti Shafi,the khalifa of Thanvi….was ML supporter….and his sons were supporters of Afghan War….

  25. YLH

    PS: The only real heirof the true Muslim League that exists today in the subcontinent is the Indian Union Muslim League which is part of the current Indian government. It has an unbroken chain to Jinnah’s All India Muslim League and was the sister organization of the original Pakistan Muslim League.

  26. YLH

    Ali what is your point?

    Afghan Jehad’s planners and originators were MUFTI MAHMOOD and MAULANA FAZLURAHMAN …. Congress’ BOYS … so much for your earlier claim. Who the hell is Maulana Shafi? And how many Jehadis did he produce?

    Now calling me PMA or Majumdar shows how diseased your mind really is. Would the moderators of this website confirm if I am the same person as PMA and Majumdar. PMA is Pervaiz Munir Alvi – a famous blogger based in US … and Majumdar is either based in Calcutta or Delhi.

  27. Aliarqam

    Mufti Mehmood was the person who was expelled by Hazrat Madni…for a strike in madressas..and he again and again expelled him from many Madressas…as Hazrat Madni gave him the title of Sazishee…and that JUI Of Pakistan has no affiliation with jamiat Ulema Hind…
    Blah Blah for your
    declaring
    Death Certificate to Muslim League….
    Political Orphans like U….are jumping like amphibians…from here to there….pitty for U……and Your Calcutta living Hamzad….Majumdar…but lies are lies…last time your Majumdar character was saying am living in Dehli…but Ok…hamzad can go anywhere in seconds

  28. YLH

    Ali,

    How and When was Mufti Mahmood “expelled” ? Are you making up these facts as you go along?

    Why then was “Hazrat” Madni was touring NWFP with Mufti Mahmood to get Azad and Mufti elected on JUH ticket in 1946 elections … and you say he was expelled? Why then does Hazrat Madni’s son welcome “Hazrat” Mufti’s son to Deoband with open arms …

    The Jamiat-e-Ulema-Islam-Fazlurrahman Group has NOTHING to do with the JUI of Shabbir Usmani that supported the Muslim League.

    The JUI-F is the remnant of Jamiat-e-Ulema-Hind and Mufti Mahmood remained a Part of Jamiat-e-Ulema-Hind till the end.

    I thought you were merely ill-informed but abovemention proves that you are utterly dishonest as well…

  29. Aliarqam

    Dont be so upset…U have the right to align to any side….
    In the Naqqar khana of Jamatis nazaria islamis….totees like U eleven augustee…will never be heard….U desperate fellows…

  30. YLH

    Maulana Mufti Mahmud (Urdu: مولانا مفتى محمود), an ethnic Marwat Pashtoon hailing from Abdul Khel, was born in January 1919 in Paniala, Dera Ismail Khan District, North-West Frontier Province, Pakistan. He was an Islamic scholar and political activist. Maulana Fazal-ur-Rehman is his son and was the leader of opposition in Pakistan.

    He fought in the Indian Independence Movement during the 1940s. He was a close ally of the Indian National Congress at the time and opposed the demand for Pakistan. Even after the Partition of India, when he moved to Pakistan, he remained a bitter enemy of the Muslim League.
    …….

    From Khyber.org:

    1941
    At Muradabad, he completed Hadith from Hazrat Maulana Fakhr ud Din RA who was student of Hazrat Sheikh ul Hind Maulana Mehmood ul Hassan RA.
    After graduation from Jamia Qasimiya, he headed back home and started teaching in Isa Khel in Mianwali until 1944.
    1942
    The ‘Leave India Campaign’ targeting the British was started. Mufti Mahmood took part in the campaign on behalf of Jamiat ul Ulema Hind. He was not only elected as Member of Majlis e Amila of Jamiat ul Ulema Hind NWFP but also as Councillor of All India Jamiat ul Ulema Hind.
    1943
    President of Jamiat ul Ulema Hind Sheikh ul Islam Maulana Hussein Ahmad Madni toured NWFP and Mufti Mahmood accompanied him during the tours.
    1946
    All India Jamiat ul Ulema Hind conducted a historical conference at Saharanpur where Mufti Mahmood participated as representative of NWFP. He also stood for elections in India the same year and made Abdul Khel his permanent home.
    1949
    Participated in the Jamiat ul Ulema Islam Central Convention at Multan.
    1950
    Appointed for teaching job in Madrassa Qasim ul Uloom in Multan. Later on, he also served at positions of chief Mudaras, In charge of Education, Chief Mufti, Sheikh ul Hadith, and Muhtamim. As a Mufti, he passed on at least 25,000 Fatawas.
    <1953
    Participated in the Tehreek e Khatm e Naboowat and was arrested.
    1954
    Leadership structure of Jamiat ul Ulema Islam was re-organized. Maulana Ihtesham ul Haq Thanvi separated from the party.

    1956
    In October, he was elected as vice-president of Jamiat ul Ulema Islam Pakistan in the Multan Convention.
    Struggled against the One-Unit of Pakistan. He was arrested because of his demands for provincial autonomy and civil liberties.
    Heavily criticized the constitution and demanded amendments to it.
    1958
    Ayub Khan declared Martial Law as a result of which all political parties were banned including that of Jamiat ul Ulema Islam
    Deeni Madaris throughout Pakistan decided to have a uniform syllabus for which Wifaq ul Madaris ul Islamia was established. Mufti Mahmood was elected as its first Secretary General.
    1962
    In April, he stood for elections for the National Assembly Seat for the first time despite Ayub Khan’s invoking of the Basic Democracy Program and defeated all opponents
    On 14th July, when law was passed to re-instate all the Political Parties, Mufti Mahmood took charge of Jamiat Ulema Islam as Qaim Maqam Ameer
    1963
    Toured East Pakistan in January and reinforced the position of Jamiat Ulema Islam there as well.
    In March, he advocated against Family Planning policy making of the government in the National Assembly and started a massive campaign against it on national level.
    The Central Meeting of Jamiat Ulema Islam was held in Lahore on 28 October. Hazrat Maulana Abdullah Darkhwasti was appointed as Ameer, and Mufti Mahmood was appointed Naib Ameer.
    1964
    In January, on the celebration of Al Azhar University Cairo’s 1000 years, President Jamal Abdul Nasir invited Maulana Muhammad Yusuf Binori, Maulana Ghulam Ghaus Hazarvi, Maulana Taj ul Islam, and Maulana Mufti Mahmood to Egypt.
    A bill was proposed in Parliament for Islamic Amendments in the Constitution but due to the negative traits of the opposition and coalition parties, it was not seen through.
    1965
    In May, Mufti Mahmood gave a talk at “Majlis Al Jaus Al Islamia” in Egypt and was widely appreciated by visiting scholars from throughout the world.
    1966
    In January, The Tashkent Treaty was deeply criticized because of its secretive nature and that the nation was not aware of its salient points.
    A campaign was started against the anti-Islam teachings of the “Tehqeeqat e Islam” and its director Dr. Fazl ur Rahman
    1967
    The Tehqeeqat e Islam issued a Fatwa which made it ‘Halal’ to eat meat which was slaughtered via the western method (i.e. Machine) to which Mufti Mahmood’s started a campaign. With reasons from the Quran and Sunnah, he proved them wrong. Mufti e Azam Maulana Muhammad Shafi had given the approval of the Fatwa but after Mufti Mahmood’s indulgence into the matter, it was taken back.
    In June, Israel attacked Egypt. Mufti Mahmood and his party voiced their support for Egypt and started a boycott of Israeli products.
    1968
    In February, the International Islamic Conference was held in Rawalpindi in which Dr. Fazl ur Rahman, Janab Masood, and Jafar Shah submitted their highly erroneous and non-traditional research work in Islam. Mufti Mahmood vehemently opposed them and proved their research wrong with counter arguments. Visiting dignitaries and scholars from around the world highly appreciated Mufti Mahmood for his efforts.
    On 8 January, the Pakistan’s political parties formed a coalition of “Jamhoori Majlis e Amal” in Dhaka and Mufti Mahmood was one of the Central Leadership of this party.
    1969
    On 10 March, The Jamhoori Majlis e Amal and the Ayub Khan Regime held a round table conference in which Mufti Mahmood put forward his 22 points on behalf of all religious parties of Pakistan.
    1970
    In May, Pakistan’s 18 Religious and Political Parties formed a “Muttahida Deeni Mahaz” and Mufti Mahmood was appointed its President.
    In December, Elections were held and Mufti Mahmood had a landslide victory over Zulfiqar Ali Bhutto in the Dera Ismail Khan constituency.
    1971
    On 3rd March, the parliamentary group of the minority parties held a session at Lahore instead of the Parliament house because the Muslim League and the Peoples Party were in direct conflict with each other as a result of which the political scene was very unstable. The minority parties held this separate session to show their non-involvement in the affairs of the major parties. This was the last step to save the country from disintegration. Mufti Mahmood presided the session.
    In July, Mufti Mahmood toured the Middle East and was accompanied by Maulana Ghulam Ghaus Hazarvi Rahmatullah Alaihe
    In 4 December, an Ijtima was held in Lahore in which millions participated in retaliation for India’s attack on Pakistan. Mufti Mahmood issued a Fatwa for Jehad on this occasion.
    On 24 December, a commission was formed to investigate the facts behind the fall of Dhaka. Mufti Mahmood voiced his opinion which was compiled under the supervision of Justice Hamood ur Rahman.
    Bhutto offered Mufti Mahmood minister ship in the centre but he did not accept it and instead demanded the approval of Islamic Laws by the Government.
    1972
    On 26 March, the three main political parties of the country entered a coalition. The agreement was signed between Zulfiqar Ali Bhutto from Peoples Party, Abdul Wali Khan from National Awami Party, and Mufti Mahmood from Jamiat e Ulema Islam.
    On 1 May, Mufti Mahmood took oath as Chief Minister of the NWFP and on this occasion took the following steps:
    Forbidding Alcohol
    Urdu as Official Language in Government Circles
    Forbidding Western Dresses (Pants) in Government Departments
    Jahaiz Act
    Ban on Betting
    Educational Reforms (Quranic Knowledge a pre-requisite for admission in educational institutions)
    Enforcing Pardah
    Respect for Ramazan Ordinance
    Ban on Interest
    Friday as Holiday
    and formation of a Board for formalizing Islamic Laws
    1973
    In February, a botched attempt was made to assassinate Mufti Mahmood.
    On 15 February, Mufti Mahmood resigned from chief minister position as protest for the unfair dismissal of the Balochistan Government.
    From 15 February to 21 February, the Government offered various incentives to Mufti Mahmood to lure him to take back his decision but he refused.
    In February, many political parties in Pakistan formed a coalition of the “Muttahida Jamhoori Mahaz” for which Mufti Mahmood was appointed as Vice-President.
    In August, a civil disobedience movement was started against the negative attitude of the government. Mufti Mahmood played a central role in it.
    1974
    In April, Mufti Mahmood addressed a grand gathering of Jamiat Tuleba Islam at Karachi University.
    In May, Mufti Mahmood played a central role in the Tehreek Khatm e Naboowat along with Maulana Yusuf Binori.
    On 30 June, 137 members of the National Assembly proposed a resolution demanding the Qadianis as Kafirs and Mufti Mahmood’s name was at the top of the list.
    On 1st July, the National Assembly approved the resolution for debate in the assembly. The Leader of the Qadianis, Mirza Nasir made an unprovoked aggressive attack on Mufti Mahmood in parliament as a result of which the rest of the members of the assembly came to know the real nature of the Qadianis.
    On 22 August, a sub-committee of the National Assembly was formed in which Maulana Mufti Mahmood, Professor Abdul Ghafoor, Maulana Shah Ahmad Noorani, Chaudhry Zahoor Elahi, Ghulam Farooq, Sardar Maula Bakhsh Soomro, and Abdul Hafiz Pirzada played a part. The committee formalized a report by the 5th of September and as a result the final nail in the coffin was put on the 7 of December, in which Qadianis were termed a non-Muslim minority and the issue was resolved.
    1975
    On 22 April, an assassination attempt was made on Mufti Mahmood in Sajawal in District Thattha, in Sindh.
    1976
    In February, A bomb blast in Peshawar University resulted in the death of Hayat Muhammad Sherpao. Abdul Wali Khan was arrested and Mufti Mahmood was appointed as the Opposition Leader in the National Assembly.
    1977
    On 11 January, All Political and National parties in Pakistan formed a coalition and appointed Mufti Mahmood as the leader of this coalition.
    On 7 March, Mufti Mahmood contested elections from Dera Ismail Khan constituency and won with a good margin. But due to large scale irregularities in the elections, Mufti Mahmood laid a crucial role in protests that erupted throughout the country.
    On 10 March, the provincial elections were boycotted and a protest campaign was started while acting as president of Pakistan Qaumi Ittehad
    Mufti Mahmood fell ill during the Tehreek Nizam e Mustapha. He was injured as well and despite his ill-health, he played a leading role and toured the length and breadth of Pakistan in his campaigns.
    According to the Defence of Pakistan Rules, Mufti Mahmood was arrested in Lahore. He was first held in Rawalpindi Jail and then shifted to Haripur Jail.
    On 13 March, Mufti Mahmood started negotiations with Prime Minister Zulfiqar Ali Bhutto. He was representing the Pakistan Qaumi Ittehad.
    On 29 June, the Pakistan Qaumi Ittehad presented a set of demands to the Prime Minister
    On 1st of July, on Friday, and on 2nd of July, the negotiations with the government continued all night. Mufti Mahmood announced that unless a decision was reached, they will continue talks continuously.
    On 3 July, the Pakistan Qaumi Ittehad met the Prime Minister’s team for the final meeting.
    On 5 July, General Muhammad Zia ul Haq enforced Martial Law in the country. Maulana Mufti Mahmood was arrested again.
    1978
    Mufti Mahmood collaborated with the Government for enforcing Nizam e Mustapha. But later on, after sensing that the Military Regime was trying to impose themselves on the nation in pretext of Islamic Law, Mufti Mahmood criticized the army approach.
    1979
    Afghanistan was attacked by Russians. Mufti Mahmood issued Fatwa for Jehad against the Russians and the puppet regime in Afghanistan. A military campaign was started for the Jehad which is still in existence after the eviction of the Russians in the form of the Taleban movement.
    1980
    Issued vote of confidence in General Zia ul Haq’s Islamization reforms and issued a Fatwa against the collection of Zakat Tax by the Government. He also established the MRD in the same year.
    On 13 October, Mufti Mahmood prepared for Hajj and arrived at Karachi.
    On 14 October, He was addressing Ulema Karam and various Mufti e Azams in Jamiat ul Uloom al Islamia Binori Town when all of a sudden his soul departed and like this instead of going to Allah’s house in Makka, he went to meet Allah himself.
    On 15 October, his body was transferred from Karachi to Multan, and then via plane to Dera Ismail Khan where he was buried

  31. Aliarqam

    And why then Hazrat Madni’s son’s Car was hit with stones in Pakistan when he talked against Kashmir Jihad….

  32. YLH

    Ali gram…

    We are anxiously waiting for the evidence for your outrageously idiotic claim that you made earlier.

  33. YLH

    Ali … what kind of an illogical question is that? If Madani’s son was stoned for speaking against Kashmiri freedom struggle how does it prove that Mufti Mahmood was not in Jamiat-e-Ulema Hind which I have shown you above he was.

    Where is the damn evidence for him being “kicked out” according to you.

  34. Aliarqam

    I have written that He was expelled from the madressa….because of a strike….he was disliked by Hazrat Madni….and called SAZISHEE by him….
    after then he participated on JUH platform…but he was not a man of integritx…There were so many molvis who were as for their denbandi thoughts attached with JUH…but were working for ML in Referendum…Mufti Mehmood was not a wise politician…used by establishment against Bhutto…and issued fatwa for Afghan Jihad…but it did not mean the whole deobandis was in favor of Afghan Jihad….

  35. YLH

    “Political Orphans like U….are jumping like amphibians…from here to there….pitty for U……and Your Calcutta living Hamzad….Majumdar…but lies are lies…last time your Majumdar character was saying am living in Dehli…but Ok…hamzad can go anywhere in seconds”

    Yeah ok. You’ve completely lost your mind ali.

  36. YLH

    Ali…

    “I have written that He was expelled from the madressa….because of a strike….he was disliked by Hazrat Madni….and called SAZISHEE by him….

    Could you quote some evidence because as far as I know you are making this up.

    “after then he participated on JUH platform…”

    How is that possible then? Why was he Madni’s main man in NWFP then? Atleast you’ve admitted it now that present day JUI-F has a connection with JUH.

    The truth is that Mufti Mahmood remained a favorite of Madni. He worked for the Congress in the referendum and was an ally of Bacha Khan and the KK(K).

    I am surprised by how far you are going on lying about a fact of history that is well known.

  37. YLH

    BTW… I quoted the entire time-line as is from anti-Muslim League, pro-Pushtoon Nationalist website above.

    I don’t ascribe to the nonsense or the tenor that is inhuman and disgusting … but typical of Mullah fascists and Pushtoon Nationalists.

  38. YLH

    Other readers: I apologize for this digression. In my defence I didn’t bring up any of this. I suppose our resident Politburo thinks everything is fair game when they are on the losing end of an argument. I still fail to see how my comment about Comrade Baloch Nationalist Israrullah Zehri’s views on women provoked our Politburo to bring up Greater Pakhtoonistan.

    In any event… this is indication enough of how bankrupt the commie-left really is… and how the left needs to rid itself of such dogmatic fundamentalists.

  39. Kaffir

    Hey Ali – didn’t JUI-F commemorate “muslim heroes of independence” last year including Madni, Bacha Khan and other mullahs… but left out Jinnah and the Muslim League leaders because they were not “islamic” enough ?

    It was big news. You can find this on google I am sure. It was published by Dawn, Daily Times and the Frontier Post.

  40. YLH

    Why has ali arqam run away is my question? Does he not have the decency to admit that he lied shamelessly and got caught?

  41. Aliarqam

    @YLH
    What I have written about Mufti Mehmood is a fact not a lie…To show the referenceis not copying and pasting job…..
    This can asked from
    Sahibzaada Mehmood
    Khanqaah Yassin Zai Sharif Dera Ismail Khan…who was Mufti Mehmood class fellow…He is still alive…
    Mufti Mehmood was on a strike at Darul Uloom Deoband for which he is expelled by Hazrat Madni…from the Darul Uloom
    He went to Jamia Mazharul Uloom saharanpur,but unfortunately Hazrat Madni went there on a political compaign..and by his complain he was expelled from there also…Thatswhy He even studyinhg in India never got further education from Famous institution and got degree from Muradabad…..

  42. YLH

    Let’s assume for a minute that what you say is true … (Which is not but let’s humor you) … does that take away from the fact thqat Mufti Mahmood was the biggest Congressi mullah and leader of Jamiat e Ulema Hind in NWFP ? Can you deny that?

    Then do you admit that you lied when you tried to fool everyone by claiming that JUI-F has nothing to do with JUH?

    And if he was a “sazishee”, why did Madni and Azad trust him so much.

    Just accept it…your lie was caught and you lack the honesty and integrity to admit that you are a two bit liar.

    Btw you and Sherryx have a lot in common with maulana fazlurrahman especially your views on Jinnah and Muslim League not being freedom fighters.

  43. YLH

    Also – just so that we are clear one only needs to go and read Darul itfa website and the fatwas given by darul uloom deoband’s backward and ridiculously pathetic mullahs to see how reactionary, closeminded and.backward the deobandi school of thought really is.

    Darul uloom deoband was the faustian bargain of the Congress Party- shahbano case, imrana case and countless others are the pound of flesh that the Shylocks the mullahs from Deoband have claimed in return for services rendered against the Muslim League.

    Consequently the Muslim family law in India hasn’t moved an inch forward in a century. In Pakistan thanks to Ghulam Ahmed Parwez, the Muslim Family Laws Ordinance 1961 significantly rationalized Islamic family law by making plural marriages harder to contract and by allowing a wife the right to not just khula but talaq e tafweez… And by making oral talaq against the law and making halala unnecessary.

    Such radical action is unheard of in India all thanks to Darul uloom Deoband.

  44. sherryx

    I seem to have to have touched a nerve , isnt it. Still trying to learn the difference between Turk and Moslem. Good good, one day, you will know, people grow up usually.

    Read more of Haroon Rasheed’s columns and Jamat’s literature, ur comrades in arms against Bacha Khan , NAP and ANP.
    What an irony , Jamat and Jinnahist share same historical view point on NWFP. Poor Maudaudi and poor Jinnah!!!
    [Its now a matter of public record, people can read Mr Rashid’s columns in daily Jang, on NWFP, against Pakistan’s Progressive Movement, speeches of Molana Fazul ul Rehman against greater “paktoonistan” and PML-N protest in NA, they will find a sharp similarity in views of Mr Hamadani esp his articles on NWFP, and the obsessive hatred he and Jamat shares of Communism, even terms are similar, this once again to show webs of history, how history is purposeful. how a debate on pages , comes out and becomes a live event. How Pakistani establishment the pro taliban and pro al qaida elements again brought the issue of “Pakhtoonistan” out of bag to give support to Taliban. what we have been saying that Mr Hamdani’s views on history of NWFP is the view of establishment, today, we can all see, in pages of news papers, in parliament and in media, JUI-F , PML-N and JI all cursing “Paktoon nationalism” just like Mr Hamdani, same allegations, same phrases and same language.

    Misguided liberalism!!!

    sach hi kaha he kissi ne

    Pasaban mil gaye kaabe ku sanam khane se–

    You going with Fazal and Jamat and Captain Safdar of PML-N to protest against “Pakhtoonkhaw”. you can spread the leaflets of 11 August’s speech of Jinnah, send one copy to Bait ullah Mehsood as well, telling him about “Jinnah’s Pakistan”
    You should be happy Molana Fazul ul Rehman is correcting wrongs of his Daddy, he is now a “patriotic Pakistani nationalist”, he has adopted the gold standard of Pakistani patriotism, to curse Pakhtoon nationalism, raising Pakhtoonistan stunt. I am sure next he will visit Jinnah mausoleum . Congrats , such a great conversion. I am sure he has been reading your great works.
    All of you than go together for coronation of King Obama, representing Jinnah’s Pakistan.
    Best of Luck

  45. YLH

    Sherry mian,

    Forgive me. How can I argue with you?
    After all you know more about Turk nationalism than Gokalp and Ataturk themselves who I’ve quoted above. There is no point arguing it ofcourse – I merely brought it up because knowing neechpan you are capable of, everytime you can’t argue you try and change the topic. I am gratified that you still don’t have a logical response to the points I raised.

    On NWFP and Jinnah, you share a world view with Maulana Fazlurrahman as Kaffir pointed out above. Don’t worry there is no chance of him going to Jinnah’s mausoleum. When he was leader of the opposition he replaced Jinnah’s portrait with Mufti’s. He is firmly in your camp. Last year he used vocabulary eerily similar to yours on Jinnah.

    Politics is politics. PML-N and JI and others also stand for Chief Justice apparently- does that mean one should quit the Lawyer’s movement. You stopped making sense a long time ago.

    Ofcourse your entire drama is to cover up the fact that you don’t have an argument to begin with. You are a name dropper … You are the kind who can’t think for themsekves ..you put up names to impress people but have never bothered to read what you claim to quote. You end up attributing falsehoods to people like Eqbal Ahmed, Hamza Alavi and KK Aziz…and ofcourse George Orwell.

    When I call your bluff by quoting these great writers, you start whining and abusing me. Talk about being misguided. Just give up man. You lack the mental ability to accurately interpret anything more than an abridged version of Dr. Seus really. Leave these higher pursuits to someone else- try your hand at manual labor or something- yeh dimaghi kaam tumhare bus ki baat nahin hain. You are too petty, too narrow, too much of a mullah to learn or unlearn anything mian.

    Maybe your parents misread the situation. You are the son who had to end up in madrassah rote learning the Quran in Arabic…because frankly that is all you seem capable of.

    Anyway to each his own…

  46. Aliarqam

    @YLH
    You know what is your problem…I think you have spent most of the time with Ladies…You believe in noise not arguements…You open up sevral issue at once and dont wanna complete one….
    I wrote
    “So for the role of Mullah is concerned…those who had committed the unforgettable crime of standing with the congress against Partition….and those who were with ML….
    Look at the difference of reactions…
    The first ones have unanimously with 6000 ulemas…passed a resolution against Terrorism….and what the allies of ML are doing…the half hearted Fatwa…which is only against those whose JIHAD philosophy is against Pakistan….They have the license to have a JIHAD…whenever and wherever we want …
    U replied

    Ali Arqam ….
    Who are you deceiving?

    The father of Jehad and Taliban is none other than Maulana Fazlurrahman and Maulana Mufti Mahmood… who stood by the Congress.

    So you are wrong again. Name one Mullah who supported the Muslim League who is in any way associated with the Jehad in Afghanistan. I challenge you.
    Then U awarded me with
    ” expected better from AliGram… but apparently he is not very honest either.”

    I replied to your challenge..
    “Offsprings of Molana M Shafi….justice Taqi Usmani,mufti Rafi Usmani,mufti wali razi all were supporters of Afghan JIHAD…and these peoples are the followers of Ashraf Ali Thanvi…
    Rafi Usmani has written a book on the miracles happened to Mujahids in the war named as
    “PURASRAR BANDEY”
    @YLH
    or Majumdar
    or PMA (missing ya so much)

    I have responded to your challenge…Mufti Shafi,the khalifa of Thanvi….was ML supporter….and his sons were supporters of Afghan War….

    You brought Mufti Mehmood here…
    The truth is that Mufti Mahmood remained a favorite of Madni. He worked for the Congress in the referendum and was an ally of Bacha Khan and the KK(K)…

    I told that…
    Mufti Mehmood was the person who was expelled by Hazrat Madni…for a strike in madressas..and he again and again expelled him from many Madressas…as Hazrat Madni gave him the title of Sazishee…and that JUI Of Pakistan has no affiliation with jamiat Ulema Hind…
    Blah Blah for your
    declaring
    Death Certificate to Muslim League….

    You claimed
    PS: The only real heirof the true Muslim League that exists today in the subcontinent is the Indian Union Muslim League which is part of the current Indian government. It has an unbroken chain to Jinnah’s All India Muslim League and was the sister organization of the original Pakistan Muslim League.
    “It means it is Congress Alley”

    Current Muslim Leagues has Sons and heirs of former Muslim Leagues…but you deny their affiliation with Muslim League…
    So how can by just claiming Fazlurrehman can be declared as JUH follower….
    JUH had never ever supported armed wings…JUI had their Armed wings in Afghanistan and Kashmir…JUH had never ever issued a Fatwa fo Armed resistence…and JUI did…
    JUI has the same claims as PML(A to Z) have for Real Muslim League…as per you wish

  47. YLH

    And to think all this because I dared to criticize Comrade Israrullah Zehri Baloch nationalist for saying what he said about burying women alive. Ah the irony. Good night.

  48. Aliarqam

    @Sherry
    you can spread the leaflets of 11 August’s speech of Jinnah, send one copy to Bait ullah Mehsood as well, telling him about “Jinnah’s Pakistan”

    Mazaa Agayaa

  49. YLH

    Ali Arqam aka Sherryx

    I am not even going to respond to your sexist male chauvinism about the “ladies”. Clearly you spent most of your time in Bannu and enjoy the treatment you are getting right now.

    No matter how much you lie today, you know that fazlurrahman and his daddy were Congress mullahs… Fazlurrahman proved his allegiance again by disrespecting Jinnah and the Muslim League last year…

    The fact of the matter is that JUI-F is the unbroken ideological successor of the Jamiat e Ulema Hind … that JUI-F shares ideological and historical vision with Darul Uloom Deoband and that JUI-F’s leadership consists of the remnants of the JUH mullahs.

    And wow in 2008 Darul uloom Deoband finally gave a fatwa against violence… Most of Muslim League supporters came from Barelvi Islam which was never Violent to begin with… And the Deobandis who continue the violence in Pakistan have an unbroken historical continuity with the darul uloom deoband.
    The problem is with the deobandi creed … And the Deobandi creed owes its existence politically to the Congress.

    I frankly don’t understand how this is relevant to the discussion but ok. We can go on.

  50. YLH

    “Maza aagaya”

    Behtullah Mehsud kay mazay letay ho? Sharam nahin atee? Oh I forgot- Bannu right? The san francisco of the East.

  51. YLH

    “Send him one copy telling him about Jinnah’s Pakistan”

    Will do- once he is done reading Lenin’s last testament that you sent him.

  52. Aliarqam

    “I am not even going to respond to your sexist male chauvinism about the “ladies”. Clearly you spent most of your time in Bannu and enjoy the treatment you are getting right now.”

    Shame on You……ill minded Man….I have pointed out your habbit of making noise…But thats Ok
    Anything can be expected from Muslim league mind…As they had put Salman Taseer’s Daughters picnic photographs to the press….Brother of Rana Sanaullah…..
    Who says PML(N) is not the heir of ML????????
    You proved that

  53. Aliarqam

    So how can by just claiming Fazlurrehman can be declared as JUH follower….
    JUH had never ever supported armed wings…JUI had their Armed wings in Afghanistan and Kashmir…JUH had never ever issued a Fatwa fo Armed resistence…and JUI did…
    JUI has the same claims as PML(A to Z) have for Real Muslim League…as per you wish

  54. YLH

    Yawn- Salman Taseer is the son of MD Taseer- he was Jinnah’s point man in Kashmir during those early days.

    Sanaullah is a piece of crap and his party is a piece of crap.

    Salman Taseer is exactly the kind of leftist that I think is important for the country- modern, liberal, staunchly capitalist, westernized. The man has done wonders in Lahore. He is a credit to capitalism and Pakistan is lucky to have him at the helm of affairs in the largest province of Pakistan.

    By the way given that the current PPP govt has a prime minister whose father was in the Pakistan movement, a foreign minister whose family played a pivotal role in getting Jinnah south Punjab and who till 1990 was a Muslim Leaguer, an information minister who operates a Jinnah Thinktank, a president whose great grand father founded Sindh Medressah tul Islam high school and whose founder ZAB was himself a student activist for Jinnah and whose father was Jinnah’s ally and friend and won him Junagadh, the PPP qualifies more of a successor of the Real Muslim League than PML-N.

    I should know… I am a card carrying member.

  55. YLH

    I have already answered that question about JUH above Bannu boy. You may read it.

  56. Majumdar

    Ali mian,

    Majumdar…U are always following the same pathway set by my patriotic Pakistani capitalism loving Hamdani

    Well, if I am YLH in disguise, naturally I would do that, wouldnt I (LOL). Btw, if you come down to Delhi some time I can dispel all your doubts. Or you could come down to chowk where I can introduce you to a gentleman who has not only met me face to face but is also a bitter opponent of YLH.

    Anyway to get back to issues.

    1. Todays PML has as much to do with MAJ (pbuh) as the Taliban has to do with the Holy Prophet.

    2. There may have been a few fundoos in AIML in MAJ’s time but remember then AIML was a representative of all Muslims- progressives, feudals, salariat, fundoo so naturally was bound to reflect the spectrum of all Muslims. INC Muslims OTOH were almost entirely the jihadi types. So to that extent YLH is correct on the money.

    Regards

  57. Aliarqam

    “Sanaullah is a piece of crap and his party is a piece of crap”
    U are true follower of such Craps…by your way of sexist abuse…..

  58. YLH

    Ali,

    Ok . Whatever… or as many of us desis say VHATEWER dude! .

  59. Majumdar

    Ali mian, Yasser,

    I think we can discuss this without resorting to abuse and invectives.

    Regards

  60. YLH

    “misguided liberalism”

    The difference between takfiri Mullahs and takfiri “leftists” is of the book… otherwise they are one and the same.

    Both hate “misguided liberalism”… both predate the age of reason and rational thought… both are reactionary and medievalist…. and control freaks.

  61. I think the comments on this post are going haywire.

    As for the article of Imtiaz Baloch, I agree to some extent that Tariq has lost it quite clearly on some major issues in Pakistani politics. His arguments may satisfy his audience in the West but they are no longer agreeable for Pakistani of prominent progressive shades.

  62. Sa'ad Abbasi

    Tariq Ali is wrong about Taliban and Hezbollah becuase he is insensitive towards Sindhis and Balochis? Great logic !!!!!!!!

  63. KP

    Sa’ad Abbasi

    Read the article carefully. That is not implied here.

  64. aliarqam

    Same article appeared on
    Indus Asia Online Journal…
    Read comments there on the article…
    http://iaoj.wordpress.com/2008/11/22/tariq-ali-praises-taliban-and-hezbollah/#comments

    Here at PTH Craps like “Rana YLH” spoils everything…..

  65. aliarqam

    5 | Javed Malik

    November 23rd, 2008 at 7:30 am

    A view from Islamabad

    Frankly as a young man growing out of right wing politics in Punjab heartland, it took me a while to understand what people of other nationalities think of the Federation of Pakistan. And some of us are attempting to change the dominant views of mainstream politics towards nationalists concerns…for instance read this article which i wrote after spending ten days in Baluchistan in June.

    http://jang.com.pk/thenews/jun2008-weekly/nos-22-06-2008/pol1.htm#6

    On other hand I guess Baluch intelligentia and especially leftest friends who have been in the rights struggle have chosen to hold extreme positions. The likes of Najam Sehti Saheb and Ahmed Rashid Saheb are openly siding with even neo-cons and are unwilling to even condemn US air strikes on civilians.. Others like Imtiaz saheb are living their normal lives in Canada and are putting up options which are impossible to achieve and would not take the cause of Baluches any where. His ideas of seeking Baluch areas independence from Iran displays how much people living in away lands can loose sight of seeing the issues in reality and suggest a pragmatic course which could work.

    In times when even right of self determination as a concept is struggling to survive in human rights academics and even the most independent minded Kashmiries like Yasin Malik Saheb are converging their positions for a loose autonomous zone in joint control of India and Pakistan, the best course of nationalistic politics in Pakistan to have a maximum autonomy with complete control over their natural resources. Once that is taken care of, the Baluch identity politics then can take care of human development issues with in their own regions. The Sindh rights issues even does not exist. People Party has taken over 80 percent of the votes in rural Sindh and now has installed a President who is commander in chief also. He can do any thing which he wants to do and the onus is no more on Punjabies for not doing enough for Sindh or Baluchistan. If Mr. Zardari wants to re-organize National Finance Commission to re-distribute resources he can. He can also re-organize IRSA, OGRA and many other agencies in favor of smaller provinces favor as an affirmative action. Tariq Ali therefore was obviously right in down playing Sindh rights issues as politically the issue does not really exist any more.

    In persuing idealistic persuits one of the role of public intellectuals like Imtiaz sb is to distinguish between what should be done and what is possible and focus on the later. Who knows that course would eventually lead to a destiny where he would find possibilities for a better world of all who share this region togather.

  66. aliarqam

    6 | Javed Chaudry

    November 23rd, 2008 at 2:06 pm

    Please allow me to reply to you for your question that you have put regarding Palestine and Balochistan.

    To begin with, let me say this, there is absolutely no parallel between the Palestine issue and Balochistan. Some would put them together only to further their hidden agenda in order to support CIA and Neocon plans.

    Palestine is part of the Arab land which was an integral part of Ottoman Empire for several centuries. After WWI, the British controlled the region of Palestine; a part of which they handed over to the Zionists according to Balfour Declaration (you can search on this for further detains on the internet). After Israeli invasion of the Arab countries in 1967, Israel captured (Palestine) which was under Jordan’s jurisdiction. Since then, Israel has been steadily expanding into the captured area against the international law ignoring several UN resolutions with the help of American support as American foreign policies are controlled by the Zionists.

    Balochistan on the other hand has nothing in common with Palestine/Zionist type issues. Balochistan has been part of British Empire since 1876, just as the rest of the Indian subcontinent. At the time of partition in 1947, as the political dividing line was drawn to create Pakistan, every thing to the west of the this line (going through Punjab and sind) and east of the Durand Line (you can search the internet for more details on Durand Line) was considered to be under Pakistani jurisdiction.

    For their own administrative convenience, the British authorities had allowed the feudal lords to exist as long as they supported the British Raj. Mir Ahmed Khan was one such feudal lord in Balochistan who, at the time of Indian partition requested the British government to let him stay independent but the request was not entertained. Consequently, Balochistan was made a province of Pakistan as were the other three provinces. There simply nothing unusual or different about the process. All four provinces are unique in terms of their languages and cultures.

    Time to time, the feudal lords create trouble for personal gains to try to be the ‘kings’ of the poor tribes. Pakistan’s central government had to send army to control such trouble makers in Balochistan. About 30-35% balochi population is Pakhtoons, about 5-7% are Punjabis, the rest are some 500 Balochi tribes.

    During the last 20-30 years, the US has been showing interest in the region because Balochistan has natural resources that the US would like to exploit and at the same time, it would like to run its proposed pipeline due to which the US invaded Afghanistan in 2001 under the pretext of 9/11 and A-Quida type pretenses and lies. Basically it is all a geo-political struggle with the US at the centre of this shameful activity. CIA and RAW have been funding various groups in Balochistan to break it away from Pakistan. There are several individuals and groups that work to carry out CIA disinformation throughout the world. Many of them are of Pakistani origin, who have sold their souls for a few dollars to carry out the CIA dirty work.

    I hope you have a better incite into the issue.

    I have not touched upon your question on Kurds. A short answer would be that it is again the Neocon supporters who want to break Iraq into three smaller parts as the first step towards greater Israel. In fact the Israelis/Zionists are working with many Curds in the hope to further destroy Iraq. A lot can be said in the subject but I will stop here for now.

    At a minimum, I would like the people of the world to be aware of the CIA propaganda, as it is done through your own friends and neighbors who have sold their souls.

    Javed Chaudry

  67. aliarqam

    7 | Jahan Zeb

    November 23rd, 2008 at 10:16 pm

    Dear Friends
    I think they all .. give Pashtuns, Baloch, Sindhis and Kashimiris enough pain and stimulus to think, collaborate and come up with analysis and solutions brought forward made by these nationalities.
    Two of my friends – Zia of Pashtun Peace Forum – UK and Khadim Hussain of Arynana Institute for Regional Research and Advocacy (AIRRA) Pukhtunkhwa commented that most of Pakistani socialist and so-called democrats believe that Taliban are Pashtun nationalists despite the fact that we have now evidence that:
    1. The Taliban movement in Pakistan and Afghanistan have been involved in ruthless violation of the Pashtun code by attacking jirgas, girls, funeral processions and prayer congregations.
    2. Taliban are anti-imperialists despite the fact that they are the main reason for the presence of the US and NATO forces in Afghanistan and Pakistan.
    3. The above mentioned both impressions about Taliban operating in Pasthoon belt is nowadays under heated discussion.
    4. The argument that Taliban are Pashtoon Nationalist is being presented by former military chiefs like Hamid Gul, Asad Durrani and Mirza Aslambaig etc.
    5. Another is impression that Taliban are anti-imperialist forces and are being presented by some left circles. International Socialist Pakistan, one amongst these socialist groups, are presenting the Taliban in Swat and FATA as anti-imperialist and insisting the need to support these fanatics.
    6. This issue of Talibanization in Pashtun belt is being distorted and misinterpreted which is leading to a big confusion.
    As articulated by Imtiaz Baloch of Baloch Human Rights Council of Canada in his article, it is the need of the hour to discuss it further and to bring counter arguments by Pashtuns, Baloch, Sindhis and Kashimiris. We are working glad that Farhat Taj of AIRRA is going to bring a research project to deconstruct this discourse of Pashtuns and Talibanization.
    We need to develop collaborative strategies to facilitate the process of learning and provide platform to Pashtuns, Baloch, Sindhis and Kashimiris nationalists and genuine Punjabi nationalists to collaborate otherwise as Pashtuns Nation is bleeding, it will be soon the fat of Punjab.

    Pashtun Peace Forum – Canada

  68. aliarqam

    9 | Ahmar Mustikhan

    November 24th, 2008 at 7:23 pm

    Hands of Baluchistan, the name itself says it is the land of the Baluch.

    Balochs are the son’s of soil of Balochistan or for that matter Persians in the West, have absoutely no right to rule over the Baluch.

    The Muslims article of faith “La Ilaha…” should not be used to enslave nations in the name of religion. The world is not going to tolerate it.

    I really respect Tariq Ali, Najam Sethi and liberals and progressives from Punjab. But they should tell Islamabad it is very wrong to commit genocide and go to Baluchistan without ..!

    As I write these lines 900 Baluch are still missing in Baluchistan and 600 political activists are in jails, Ghulam Mohammed Baloch told me on the phone from Mand in Baluchistan just this morning.

    Baluchistan never wanted to become part of country and was an independent nation until March 27, 1948 when it was forcibly annexed at the point of gun.

    This country is an artificial and dangerous country …. If you do not believe me ask some like Ardehsir Cowasjee, Pakistan’s best known columnist.

    Never in the world has a majority seceded from the country, but this did happen when East Pakistan seceded to become Bangladesh in 1971.

    Never in the history of the world a … of a country got free property in his name because he left his in the enemy country — … was one of the first freeloaders from India, called ….

    Never in the history of the world the daughter of a founder opted to stay in the “enemy” country. Dina (Deenbai) Wadia opted to stay in India and is to this day a proud … because she knew her dad was an ….

    Never in the world of history, a known …. called the shots in a country’s commercial capital but this is happening in third-rate …..

    But one must give the devil its due. The Iranian intelligence seems to have penetrated deep into the progressive writers and journalists community both in the U.K. and the U.S.

    So at South Asian Peoples Forum (SAPF’s) key speaker’s views do not surprise me at all.

    Imtiaz Baloch has done a wonderful job. Scratch any … progressive and you will find the blood of either a ……

  69. aliarqam

    Its the level of discussion….

  70. Majumdar

    Ali mian,

    Never in the history of the world the daughter of a founder opted to stay in the “enemy” country.

    India and Pakistan were never meant to be enemy countries, at least not by the Qaid. As far as Dina is concerned, MAJ (pbuh) was far ahead of his times, he never even dreamt of imposing his choice on his daughter -even choice of nationality.

    Dina (Deenbai) Wadia opted to stay in India and is to this day a proud

    Yes and had MAJ (pbuh) been alive he wud have been proud that his daughter had remained a proud Indian, notwithstanding its many blemishes. In fact had MAJ (pbuh) been able to retire, he may even have spent his last days in his Mumbai.

    Regards

  71. YLH

    Like everything Aligram writes his latest argument is irrelevant … Dina Wadia is a British National and lives between 60th and 70th street in Manhattan… not that it matters. I share the view aired by Majumdar. None of Aligram’s posts make any sense.

    On 15th August 1947, Dina Jinnah Wadia raised two flags from her Window in Bombay… one of India … the other of Pakistan.

  72. Aliarqam

    @Majumdar
    Yes and had MAJ (pbuh) been alive he wud have been proud that his daughter had remained a proud Indian, notwithstanding its many blemishes. In fact had MAJ (pbuh) been able to retire, he may even have spent his last days in his Mumbai….
    I absolutely agree to you….

  73. Aliarqam

    Rana sb….
    Apna Chashma Numer drust karalo….
    That’s not my argument…that’s Ahmad Mustikhan Argument….I have just referred to it…

  74. Sa'ad Abbasi

    KP
    I would recommend that you read the article carefully!

  75. Qandeel

    Imtiaz Baloch sounds like a whingebag, upset that Tariq Ali didn’t make Balochistan the topic of his speech. Understandable, I guess, if one is part of the Baloch Human Rights Council.

    But that obviously doesn’t imply that TA is wrong or ideologically affiliated with the Taliban!

  76. fouad

    Director Genral National Security Intelligence Major General Taj-ul-Islam